Question about the "House" patterns

Discussion in '5 Easy Blues Solos' started by TomZifer, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. TomZifer

    TomZifer Blues Newbie

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    In the printed material (top of page 5) I see where the "House" minor comes from but not the "House" major, in the pentatonic scales.
     
  2. chemeagle

    chemeagle Blues Newbie

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    Look at the 3+2 pattern and imagine the 4th just above the root on the B string.
     
  3. Jalapeno

    Jalapeno Student Of The Blues

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    The major "house" pattern doesn't really come from the pentatonic scale.

    The major pentatonic's 5 notes are: Root - major 2nd - major 3rd - perfect 5th - major 6th
    or
    1-2-3-5-6

    The major house pattern is (lowest to highest): major 6th - Root - major 2nd - perfect 4th - perfect 5th
    or
    1-2-4-5-6

    The major house (I believe it is also known as the BB box since B.B. King lived there in most of his soloing) pattern substitutes the perfect 4th for the major 3rd.

    If you want to derive it from a scale consider that it comes from the major scale, not the pentatonic scale. To get the major 3rd in the "major house" you can bend the b string up a whole tone with your ring finger or slide your first finger down one fret on the e string.

    I hope that helps.

    Eric
     
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  4. Paleo

    Paleo Theory, Licks, Solos

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    It's all in the first video below, but if you watch all 3 you'll notice that Griff is maturing gracefully.:sneaky:


    Conceptually, he would first introduce the "4 Note Solo Pattern" with your third finger on the minor root on the 2nd string.

    (That's THE pattern that drew many of us to BGU and later evolved into the "Soloing Without Scales" course.)

    Then he would show how to move it up 2 frets with your first finger on that same root and play the Major sound.

    (This will become the "foundation" of the House.)

    But no mention of any "Boxes" necessary.


    In these videos he starts with THE House Pattern showing how you can use it for both Major and minor and eventually shows how you could also move down to the 4 Note Solo pattern (upper Box 2) for the minor sound.

    https://bluesguitarunleashed.com/blog/the-house-pattern/

    https://bluesguitarunleashed.com/blog/using-the-bb-box-house-pattern-and-switching-major-and-minor/

    https://bluesguitarunleashed.com/blog/live-bb-king-house-pattern-shapes/
     
    #4 Paleo, Jul 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  5. Paleo

    Paleo Theory, Licks, Solos

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    Just a couple other thoughts that may (or may not) be useful.

    1) You can find patterns for any scale, but not all patterns will be a scale.

    2) For any string set you will have the 1 and 2 on one string and the 4 and 5 on the next, as in the House Pattern on strings 2 and 1.

    (They will always be in the same pattern, except for the 3rd and 2nd string where the 4 and 5 will be up one fret.)

    From this "skeleton" any scale is just a mater of which other notes you add to it, which will be some combination of the 3, 6, 7 and/or the b3, b6, b7.

    And maybe throw in a b2 or b5.

    1 b2 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 b6 6 b7 7

    (Or compound interval or enharmonic equivalent of any of the above.)

    At least that's the way I look at scales.

    Give me a formula and I'll find a way to play it.

    Which may, or may not, be in a "Box". :sneaky:
     
    #5 Paleo, Jul 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  6. TomZifer

    TomZifer Blues Newbie

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    Thanks Eric. No wonder I couldn't find it . Is it useful to learn this "new" scale 1-2-4-5-6 all over the neck ?
     
  7. Paleo

    Paleo Theory, Licks, Solos

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    Hmmmm.......

    The first thing Griff always says regarding the House Pattern is that it is not a scale.

    Which is the whole point. You can bend to get the "missing" notes.

    You have no 3rd, which determines Major vs minor.

    If you add a 3 and a 7 you have the Major scale.

    If you add a b3 and 7 you have a Melodic Minor scale.

    If you add a 3 and a b7 you have a Mixolydian scale.

    If you add a b3 and a b7 you have a Dorian Scale.

    Learning the "complete" Major scale patterns all over the neck will be very useful, as the Mixolydian and Dorian are "Modes" of the Major scale.

    You won't use the Melodic Minor very often, if ever.


    It'll be more useful to learn the Major Pentatonic (1 2 3 5 6) and minor Pentatonic (1 b3 4 5 b7) scales all over the neck and where to add the "blue" note for Blues scales and which 2 notes to add to each pentatonic scale to get the diatonic Modes of the Major scale.

    In general, you'll want to hit the 3 and/or 6 whenever you want a Major sound.

    And the b3 and/or the b7 whenever you want a minor sound.


    The root on the 2nd string creates a unique situation where you can move between the "4 Note Solo Pattern" and the "House Pattern" in the same "Core" area.

    The House pattern won't be useful or maybe not even possible on other string sets.

    The 6 won't always be a "peak" on the roof, i.e. in the "middle".

    And try bending the 2 to a 3 on the 6th string. :eek:

    You will eventually want to know where all those scale degrees are in relation to a given root note, but by themselves as a "scale", not so much.

    Griff will always use the Major scale for reference for all other scales and for chord tones, as well.:sneaky:
     
    #7 Paleo, Jul 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  8. Jalapeno

    Jalapeno Student Of The Blues

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    Paleo has the pattern pretty much covered as regards to the pattern being a subset of the Major scale (I don't know your music background but, just in case, the major scale is the do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do that Julie Andrews sang about).

    Griff calls the pattern the "house" pattern because its shape on the fretboard resembles a stylized house on the first 3 strings. It looks like that because of the oddity of the b string on the guitar. If you start moving it onto other string groups it really won't look like a house any more. :)

    If, by chance, you mean "in all keys" by "all over the neck" then yes. Griff shows the root note of the pattern which you'd use to locate the spot on the neck for the house pattern. If you are playing a Blues in D then you'd locate the D on the b string. If you are playing a Blues in F then you'd locate the F on the b string. Once you locate the root on the fretboard the house pattern will always be the same.

    if, by chance, you mean to use the house pattern as an actual scale then you should understand that the pattern doesn't contain a 3rd or a 7th and those are the two most important chord tones, diatonically speaking, in western music. And not having a 3rd or a 7th is what gives the major house its ability to be used in a major blues. You can bend the b string with your ring finger either a whole step to get the major blues sound or a half step to get the minor blues sound. And since the major 7th is difficult to finger or bend to from that pattern there is little danger of hitting a "clinker" when using the major house, in a major blues.

    Interesting enough, for us music theory geeks, the Major House pattern fits into a class of pentatonic scales used in traditional Japanese folk music. (Warning, theory is coming, plug your ears and shout LA LA LA LA while running out of the room :) ). I'm showing here two pentatonic scales that are common in Japanese music, the Yo scale and the In scale. The third pentatonic scale is the BB Box, or the Major House pattern.

    [​IMG]

    I've rearranged the notes a bit so they fit on the staff and are comparable. The theory of the Yo scale is that it is two sets of perfect 4ths (red brackets) with a note in the middle of each 4th (blue arrow). The In scale is the same, two perfect 4ths with a note in the middle. You can also see the Major House is also two perfect 4ths with a note in the middle.

    Now in Japanese traditional folk music the Yo scale is used for a "happy, joyful" song. If you play that scale as written above you'd probably recognize it from WWII movies :) The In scale in folk music is used to denote "foreboding, sad" songs. It also might be recognizable.

    Here is the interesting part to me. The middle note of the Yo scale is a minor 3rd (3 half steps) the middle note of the In scale is a minor 2nd (1 half step) and the middle note of the Major House is a major second (2 half steps). So the Major House sits exactly in between the Yo scale and the In scale.

    So the Major House Pattern can be thought of as the In-Yo-House scale :p:rolleyes:

    Theory over, back to our regularly scheduled program.

    By the way, in this course you get the Major House in the very first lick of the very first solo (if I remember correctly, it's been years since I learned those solos). I think it was called shuffle in g or something like that.

    Eric
     
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  9. Paleo

    Paleo Theory, Licks, Solos

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  10. Jalapeno

    Jalapeno Student Of The Blues

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    My favorite usage of the melodic minor:



    Best repurposing of 18th century counterpoint from the 1960's. They were my favorite band growing up.


    [​IMG]

    And as much as I like JT's version I still love the original (and this is the original lute version that I play on acoustic guitar, though much slower :) )




    JS Bach was the master... is the master even to this day!

    Eric
     
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  11. ChrisGSP

    ChrisGSP Blues Journeyman

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    Indeed !!! I had a little exchange with @snarf in another forum, about our love of the Cello Suites. I imagine that he, like me, doesn't ONLY love the Cello suites. My first love is (as seen here) the Lute Suites, then maybe the Cello's, then the Solo Violin Sonatas and Partitas. Where does it end? Bach is so deep, and so fascinating that you could spend your whole life just studying him, and never run out of new paths to pursue.

    Kinda like the blues, really :)
     
    #11 ChrisGSP, Jul 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
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  12. Jalapeno

    Jalapeno Student Of The Blues

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    The Learn and Master Fingerstyle Guitar course has a nice arrangement of the Cello Suite no. 1 in C. I'm pretty sure I recorded it, I'll look through my archives and see if I can find it. Which I guess is also off topic since it doesn't use the major house pattern :)

    Eric
     
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  13. Paleo

    Paleo Theory, Licks, Solos

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    From Griff's "Guitar Theory Made Useful (and Easy)", p. 78.

    "For the sake of completeness I'm going to include the melodic minor scale. I say that because I never used this scale even one time until I'd been playing the guitar for almost 20 years."

    "Unless you play jazz or classical music, this probably won't come up. And even then it will come up in limited use. So if you want to skip the rest of this section until later, you may never miss it."

    I still wouldn't take the time and effort to learn how to play the Melodic Minor scale all over the fretboard based on one example of when it is used.

    I've never used it, but suppose I could if I ever need it.
     
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  14. Jalapeno

    Jalapeno Student Of The Blues

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    Yes, thank you Paleo, I know where you got the sentence from. I took the course too about 6 years ago and recognized it when you put it there.

    I quoted you because I thought you, as a fellow theory geek, might appreciate a blues rock song that uses melodic minor quite a bit. I love that Ian Anderson took a theme from a Bach Lute Suite and converted it to a wonderful blues rock anthem. I love that song and play it as a guitar instrumental sometimes when I jam with friends. I also love Bach's original version (though Anderson leaves Bach after the first 8 bar repeat) which I play a lot.

    The melodic minor version of the minor scale does appear here and there, especially when contemporary musicians like to hark back to the days before harmony to counter point. I'll have to check some of my old notes from my music theory courses but I believe the bands Yes and Genesis use melodic minor in a few of their songs. I don't have the AAP so I won't be able to see Griff's explanation of SHR and House of the Rising Sun but I'd be surprised if he comes up with an analysis that doesn't point to the melodic minor as the basis for the harmony. The melodic minor lurks in places we don't expect :)

    Learning the melodic minor as a scale is just a matter of shifting a fret ascending and shifting back to position on descent when playing the natural minor scale. The thing us theory geeks like to do is examine things like "is mixing the major and minor sounds in pentatonic licks a lot like the melodic minor scale?" Some licks that use major pentatonic in ascent and minor in descent are actually using the melodic minor but it is hidden because they are based on the pentatonic and not the full natural minor scale.

    I love music theory.

    Eric
     
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  15. Walt H

    Walt H cloudbase - Aint got time for gravity

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    Paleo, I ordered that book today. I am curious if you had to chose 5 books out of your collection that you would consider "must own" books for guitarists what would they be?

    Thanks!
     
  16. Paleo

    Paleo Theory, Licks, Solos

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    @Walt H

    That's taken me some time to think about.

    I must have at least a couple of hundred music books and guitar lesson/instruction books dating back to 1964.

    I don't know if I'd consider this list "must own" by everyone, but they are ones that influenced me and are out on the shelf next to me.

    Most of the rest of them are in boxes in the back room.


    I think you can still find all of these, some have been updated. I put 5 in boldface.


    1) The Heavy Guitar Bible - Richard Daniels - 1979 (Has boxes, scale and chord patterns, but I didn't understand a thing at the time.)

    2) Fretboard Logic vols, 1,2,3 - Bill Edwards - 1983 (First intro to CAGED. Didn't understand it then, either.)

    3) Blues You Can Use - John Ganapes - 1995 - (First real intro to blues. Started to understand the "Boxes". Solo in every lesson.)

    4) Rhythm: A Step By Step Guide - David Mead - 1997

    5) 100 Blues Lessons - Hal Leonard - 2013

    6) Guitar Theory For Dummies - Desi Serna - 2014 (He also has a 2 vol set "Fretboard Theory" and DVD sets to go along with the books.)

    7) Big Book Of Backing Tracks - Chad Johnson - 2014


    I have to add several books by Joseph Alexander at Fundamental Changes:

    8) Guitar Scales in Context - 2014
    9) Guitar Chords in Context - 2014
    10) Complete Technique For Modern Guitar - 2014
    11) Fretboard Fluency - 2015


    One non-instructional book:

    12) Lies My Music Teacher Told Me - 1994


    And of course Griff's courses - 2008 to present.:sneaky:

    I haven't purchased many since I discovered BGU in 2013, but once in awhile I like to get other perspectives.
     
    #16 Paleo, Jul 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  17. Walt H

    Walt H cloudbase - Aint got time for gravity

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    @Paleo - thank you for posting that info up I will start with the bolded and most likely obtain them all.
     
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  18. Paleo

    Paleo Theory, Licks, Solos

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    @Walt H

    Please let me know how you feel about any of them once you do purchase.

    I'm always willing to discuss any of them further.:)
     
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  19. Walt H

    Walt H cloudbase - Aint got time for gravity

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    @Paleo thank you. I am waiting on the arrival of mastering pentatonics. I do not like multitasking when it comes to digesting information so I am planning on working through that prior to moving on to your list. And I am most excited to pick your brain for knowledge.

    thanks again!!
     
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  20. Silicon Valley Tom

    Silicon Valley Tom It makes me happpy to play The Blues!

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    What a wonderful thread! (y):) How did I miss it until now? Thanks to Jalapeno and Paleo for so many happy memories. My piano teacher started me on Bach, when I was six, 1948, and in 1952 my guitar teacher introduced me to Bach. I have collected many music books since then, and at this moment I am in the process of getting them out of their boxes due to our disruptive move in December of last year. Our present home is smaller so some will remain in their boxes. .

    Julian Bream is my favorite classical guitarist, and I followed him throughout his career. I love the passion of his playing. Here is a piece of his that makes me relax and forget about the “news”.:cool:






    By the way just before our move, I was working on the B. B. King Boxes, and how to use them. I hope I find all that material that I created, and there is much more to do. It is a good way to keep busy and forget about what is going on all around us. As the Priest always says, "This too shall pass my son"! I am in full agreement that "it" should pass and the quicker the better! Back to music! :)

    Tom
     
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