Playing verses Copying

[ChrisG]

Posted this in the ask Griff section but doesn’t look like that area is still active. Maybe some of you folks would be kind enough to offer some input. Thanks!

Hey Griff - Curious as time how a guitarist moves from the level of being able to copy and perform lesson materials from a purely imitating fashion to really knowing the material and being able to use it in real life. I’ve studied dozens of courses and really have no trouble copying and memorizing rhythms, licks, and even complete solos granting that they are within my technical capabilities. However, I still don’t know my way around the fretboard to know what to play against a given progression. Sure I can play a minor pentatonic shape in the correct key but isolating the notes for the given chord or even further finding chord tones outside the scale is not something I can do. I was just curious what I’m missing? I’ve recently started memorizing all the notes on the fretboard hoping that will help. I also have the CAGED unleashed course and am wondering if I study that will it give me to missing ingredient? I’d really appreciate your thoughts on it.

 

[CaptOblivious]

It seems to me that you are well on your way to achieving your goal. All of what you have done and are planning to do will build the foundation you need. Time and practice will get you there.

You may want to check out the Pentatonic Scales and Mastery course to answer some of your questions about chords etc.

For me have found the following to be helpful to take the "lesson" and use it in the somewhat real world YMMV.

The Blues Scale Training Tool is very helpful to improve my fretboard knowledge and what scale/pattern to play, I use it for a few minutes almost every time I practice.

I also try playing the licks and boxes I am learning/practicing over the VJR jam tracks that are posted. Listening/mimicking others helps me.

And probably the most important thing is counting - if you struggle with counting you will always be behind - ask me how I know this!.

 

[tommytubetone]

I'm getting a ton of mileage out of this. One thing I noticed is that the notes of the pattern on the first, second, and third strings form another 4 note solo box. So in A, Look at the notes on the 6th fret third string, 5th and 7th frets on the 2nd string, and the 5th and 7th frets on the first string. This is probably covered in another course, but it was a revelation to me. Here is my original post.



In case you missed it...............Finding this useful and easy. What's not to like? Throw this into the bag of tricks like alternating between major and minor and you have a lot of options. Just sayin'.

https://youtu.be/dAtNJ83Igmw

 

[tommytubetone]

I'm getting a ton of mileage out of this. One thing I noticed is that the notes of the pattern on the first, second, and third strings form another 4 note solo box. So in A, Look at the notes on the 6th fret third string, 5th and 7th frets on the 2nd string, and the 5th and 7th frets on the first string. This is probably covered in another course, but it was a revelation to me. Here is my original post.



In case you missed it...............Finding this useful and easy. What's not to like? Throw this into the bag of tricks like alternating between major and minor and you have a lot of options. Just sayin'.

https://youtu.be/dAtNJ83Igmw

Add in the 8th fret on strings 1 and 2 and you have a lot to work with.

 

[Paleo]

Seems you know all the "Hows" but are lacking the "Whats".

I'd recommend starting with, or going back to, Griff's "Killer Blues Solos Made Easy" course.

It's a "small" course, but covers all the basics of "what" to play, and to me more importantly, "why".


Then I'd move on to "5 Easy Blues Solos" (or at least watch the introduction).

"I can train a monkey to play a pentatonic scale, but I can't train a monkey to come up with a solo and play something that sounds cool."

Griff always explains where every note is coming from and why in everything he teaches.

If you're ignoring theses explanations and just "copying" what he plays, to me, you're missing the point of learning it in the first place.


Then I'd move on to "Chord By Chord Blues Soloing", or at least watch the introduction where Griff explains how the Minor Pentatonic scale "works" over each of the chords in a blues progression.

I'm sure you'll get recommendations for other courses as well, but even the introductions alone to these 3 will give you a solid foundation.


In general, again only speaking for myself, learning to do something without knowing why I'm doing it or where and when I'm going to use it seems rather pointless.


Two questions I'd always hear when I was teaching.

"Why to we have to learn this crap stuff?" (ala Paul Simon)

"When are we ever going to use this?"

Of course, I asked the same questions when I was in school.

And still do.

 

[ChrisG]

It seems to me that you are well on your way to achieving your goal. All of what you have done and are planning to do will build the foundation you need. Time and practice will get you there.

You may want to check out the Pentatonic Scales and Mastery course to answer some of your questions about chords etc.

For me have found the following to be helpful to take the "lesson" and use it in the somewhat real world YMMV.

The Blues Scale Training Tool is very helpful to improve my fretboard knowledge and what scale/pattern to play, I use it for a few minutes almost every time I practice.

I also try playing the licks and boxes I am learning/practicing over the VJR jam tracks that are posted. Listening/mimicking others helps me.

And probably the most important thing is counting - if you struggle with counting you will always be behind - ask me how I know this!.

Thank you! I’ve thought several times about the VJR. I’m not really very savvy with recording, formatting, posting and all that stuff. I’m afraid that learning to do so would take up more of my limited guitar time than I’m willing to part with. I do listen often and love what you all are doing there.

 

[ChrisG]

I'm getting a ton of mileage out of this. One thing I noticed is that the notes of the pattern on the first, second, and third strings form another 4 note solo box. So in A, Look at the notes on the 6th fret third string, 5th and 7th frets on the 2nd string, and the 5th and 7th frets on the first string. This is probably covered in another course, but it was a revelation to me. Here is my original post.



In case you missed it...............Finding this useful and easy. What's not to like? Throw this into the bag of tricks like alternating between major and minor and you have a lot of options. Just sayin'.

https://youtu.be/dAtNJ83Igmw

Great info! Thanks for the tips.

 

[ChrisG]

Seems you know all the "Hows" but are lacking the "Whats".

I'd recommend starting with, or going back to, Griff's "Killer Blues Solos Made Easy" course.

It's a "small" course, but covers all the basics of "what" to play, and to me more importantly, "why".


Then I'd move on to "5 Easy Blues Solos" (or at least watch the introduction).

"I can train a monkey to play a pentatonic scale, but I can't train a monkey to come up with a solo and play something that sounds cool."

Griff always explains where every note is coming from and why in everything he teaches.

If you're ignoring theses explanations and just "copying" what he plays, to me, you're missing the point of learning it in the first place.


Then I'd move on to "Chord By Chord Blues Soloing", or at least watch the introduction where Griff explains how the Minor Pentatonic scale "works" over each of the chords in a blues progression.

I'm sure you'll get recommendations for other courses as well, but even the introductions alone to these 3 will give you a solid foundation.


In general, again only speaking for myself, learning to do something without knowing why I'm doing it or where and when I'm going to use it seems rather pointless.


Two questions I'd always hear when I was teaching.

"Why to we have to learn this crap stuff?" (ala Paul Simon)

"When are we ever going to use this?"

Of course, I asked the same questions when I was in school.

And still do.

You are 100% correct here. I’ve apparently missed connecting the dots between the What’s and the How’s. I believe it’s a downfall of 3 things really with my approach to learning to play guitar.

1. I’ve mostly relied on video and book study for the 12 years I’ve been learning. I think that doing so has really handcuffed me in being able to take a lesson beyond what was put in front of me on the book or video and applying it for use outside of the imitating format. I simply just don’t understand enough to know how to do it. I’m working on that now.

2. Lack of proper development. The internet tab, and video song lessons, although tremendously helpful, have hurt my progress in developing my ear. They simply have made me lazy. I’m changing this too!

3. Being an adult student - I’ve just not played music with other musicians. This is partly due to the lack of confidence in my own skill levels but mostly just because I don’t really know many local musicians that would want to jam with an old beginner player. Covid-19 certainly not helping here. Maybe the VJR could serve as a good substitute for now.

I really appreciate your pointing this out with your comments here. I think you have given me much to chew on as I take steps to connect the dots! Thank you my friend!

Chris

 

[CaptOblivious]

Thank you! I’ve thought several times about the VJR. I’m not really very savvy with recording, formatting, posting and all that stuff. I’m afraid that learning to do so would take up more of my limited guitar time than I’m willing to part with. I do listen often and love what you all are doing there.

You may find this tool helpful with fretboard note identification.

 

[Paleo]

If you "simply" learn the root notes in each minor pentatonic box in each key you will have learned every note on the fretboard.

I like working from patterns I already know.

Start with the "keys" of A C E and G and you'll be in pretty good shape for playing blues.

These octave patterns will also be the roots of any scale, arpeggio or chord shape you learn in the future.

Notes don't move.

They just have different functions in different keys.

I'd also start working through the lessons in Griff's "Theory" course so you'll know what the heck he's talking about.

 

[Paleo]

You may find this tool helpful

@CaptOblivious

Thanks for posting that link. I checked out all their other free lessons, exercises and tools.

I paid good money for several programs back in the 90's that pretty much do the same.

Too bad their apps are only for iPhones and iPads.

 

[MinorT]

I’m a big fan of the PS&TM course because I’m a big dope and love to torture myself. That said, if you stick with it and get through it (I am not yet) you will know the fretboard inside and out like a boss.

 

[artyman]

Certainly look in on the VJR, it's a good place to try your skills without being overwhelmed in a real live situation. We're quite a friendly bunch but you have to supply your own beer There is guidance on how to record, it's quite simple. So come and dive in.

Recording yourself is also a good way of assessing progress, regardless whether you post it on the VJR or not.