Modes

[DavidLylis]

I watched Griff's lesson on Modes and have a couple of questions.
First, and most simply, do guys like Santana play mostly in Dorian?
Second and a little more complicated, I downloaded and printed the tab for the seven modes. I also came across a chart for the Dorian Mode that shows the five patterns of the Dorian Mode, which of course takes you up the fretboard in the Dorian Mode.
Now, I guess with a little brain power I could figure this out, but do each of the Modes have five patterns that place you at different places in the fretboard while using the same notes?
Are there truly 35 different combinations in the Modes?
Is this like the pentatonic scales where there are 5 boxes but most blues guitarists play only in 1 and 2?

 

[Paleo]

Just like the Pentatonic "Boxes" have both a Major and minor root, each of the 7 notes of a Dorian pattern is the root of a mode of a Major scale.

Let's say your chart is of the 5 patterns of D Dorian and each D is designated as a root.

D E F G A B C (notes of C Major)

If you move down a whole step and designate C in each pattern as the root you now have 5 patterns of C Ionian.

The only thing that has changed is which note is the root within each pattern.

If you go up a whole step from D and designate E as the root you have 5 patterns of E Phrygian.

Still the same 5 patterns as D Dorian, but with E as the root.

Start with F = F Lydian.
Start with G = G Mixolydian
Start with A = A Aeolian = A minor Pentatonic w/B and F added.
Start with B = B Locrian

**If you looked up charts for C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian and B Locrian, they would all be exactly the same 5 patterns, in exactly the same place on the fretboard, but with different root notes highlighted.**

You can think of the Modes as having 5 "Boxes" with each of the 7 notes in each box as a potential root note.

Those 5 Boxes are the same as the 5 Pentatonic boxes with the 2 extra notes added.

(You could take those 2 notes out and switch to pentatonic at any time.)

If you think of each Mode separately you would have 35 different scale patterns to learn. But you would quickly realize that you are actually learning the same 5 "Boxes" for each one.

 

[DavidLylis]

Thank you. I see that now with the Dorian Mode. For example you start on the 6th string, 5-7-8, take out the 7 and you are playing the start of box 1. As with everything musical there are patterns. If I now move to Pattern 2 I can see Box 2.
Now, If we go down one to G Ionian (and removing the "extra" notes, that looks like box 5 (or, box 1 depending upon who you ask. I have seen what we call box 1 called box 2, etc.), so Pattern 2 Ionian would be the "same" as Box 1, Pattern 3 would be the "same" as box 2, etc.? (quotes around same is intentional). Am I on the right path here?
For the other part of my question. We can play a TON of blues never leaving box 1 and 2. I have read. that Santana plays in Dorian. Are there 1 or 2 Modes that cover the vast majority of music as with the boxes?
Ok here is a guess. If that is the case then it is Dorian and Lydian as those line up with Box 1 and 2. Yes?

 

[Paleo]

If we're talking blues (and in general?), it would be Dorian for a minor sound and Mixolydian for a Major sound. They only differ by the 3rd.

Mixolydian has the 4 notes of a Dominant 7 chord, 1 3 5 b7, and is also known as the Dominant scale.

Lydian, Phrygian and Locrian mess up our primary chord progression, I IV V or i iv v.

In Lydian the #iv is diminished, in Phrygian the v is diminished and in Locrian it's the i that is diminished.


Carlos Santana doesn't always play in Dorian.

 

[DavidLylis]

Thank you. I see that now with Mixolydian. Thanks for the help in sorting this out)

 

[Paleo]

Glad to help.

Scale patterns are an obsession with me.

 

[DavidLylis]

You could do worse with obsessions))

 

[Paleo]

We won't go into life outside of music.

 

[JPsuff]

Carlos Santana doesn't always play in Dorian.

Maybe not, but he could sure be it's spokesman.

 

[ronico]

We won't go into life outside of music.

Now I'm curious! I've had people give me that sideeye too!

 

[DavidLylis]

Ok, so pardon me for thinking out loud.
So. . .if I am in C and playing in Dorian and I start on D 5th string I play the same pattern as Dorian starting on 6th string adjusting for crossing the B string as needed?
If I shift to Myxolydian, I drop down to the 6th string G and play the pattern as written?

 

[Paleo]

So. . .if I am in C and playing in Dorian and I start on D 5th string I play the same pattern as Dorian starting on 6th string adjusting for crossing the B string as needed?

Yes and you'll be in the same pattern as the A Aeolian pattern from the A on the 6th string.

If I shift to Myxolydian, I drop down to the 6th string G and play the pattern as written?

Yes again. And if you move up and play G Mixolydian from the 5th string root at the 10th fret, you'll be back in D Dorian from the 6th string root.

Every pattern of each mode is also a pattern for the other 6 modes.

As with pentatonic boxes, we tend to name/number a pattern based on the lowest note of the pattern on the 6th string, as Griff does in "Modes Unleashed".

 

[DavidLylis]

Maybe not, but he could sure be it's spokesman.

I see you have an Epi Joe Pass. Can you comment on it? I would like to have a hollowbody. I am a beginner but getting better and while I have a job and can afford it I thought it is a good future plan. I now play an American Standard Stratocaster

 

[JPsuff]

I see you have an Epi Joe Pass. Can you comment on it? I would like to have a hollowbody. I am a beginner but getting better and while I have a job and can afford it I thought it is a good future plan. I now play an American Standard Stratocaster

I love it!

I always wanted a Jazzbox and every time I went to GC to noodle around I always ended up with an Epi Joe Pass in my lap.
I tried many others and there were likeable things about all of them, but the JP had more (for me) and so I decided to finally get one.

First off, it needs an amp.
It's not nearly as acoustic as it may seem to be, but when it's plugged in, it comes to life.
Thanks to coil-splitting, I can get everything from mellow Jazzbox moan to country twang and a lot in between and it can even take pedals and produce some interesting grind, which of course makes it a great Blues guitar as well.

It's big (about three inches deep) but not so big that it's clumsy or awkward to play and it's a great looking guitar; the Pau Ferro fretboard feels very smooth (and looks great). The floating bridge (Rosewood) makes it a true Jazzbox instead of others which have either bolt-in or floating Tune-O-Matic style bridges. To me, the "wood-to-wood" configuration is more traditional and better sounding.

For me it's not an "all-the-time" guitar but rather something I have to be in the mood for.
But when I'm in that mood it's a lot of fun to play!