Mixing major and minor pentatonic scales...

[Tarquinnian]

Greetings Again, My Fellow Pilgrims!

Here's my question for the day:  I have read somewhere that if, for example, when playing improv over an Amin chord, you could play either the Amin, Bmin, or Emin pentatonic scales (Root, 2nd, or 5th).  Now, I understand playing Form 1 over the A minor (5th position), but which forms of the Bmin and Emin pentatonic scales would I play...and where?  Obviously NOT Form 1 at the 7th position (B), and the 12th position (E)!?

As always, thank you for the guidance, as it is sincerely appreciated!

Tarquinnian

 

[MikeS]

I can't speak to what you read, but this is not what Griff teaches us.
I'm sure there are notes out of each of each of those scales that will work, but in general here's what Griff teaches:
Assuming an A progression-
Over the I:
- Am Scale or A Major scale
Over the iv (D)
- Am scale
- Dm scale
Over the V (E)
- Am scale
- Em scale
Lost of teachers teach other things, but I'm trying to keep it simple, so I don't want/need the distraction of other instructors right now.

HOWEVER...
Since this is in the Soloing Without Scales section, you should be ignoring ALL scale patterns and just pay attention to what he's showing us here.

 

[Tarquinnian]

I can't speak to what you read, but this is not what Griff teaches us.
I'm sure there are notes out of each of each of those scales that will work, but in general here's what Griff teaches:
Assuming an A progression-
Over the I:
- Am Scale or A Major scale
Over the iv (D)
- Am scale
- Dm scale
Over the V (E)
- Am scale
- Em scale
Lost of teachers teach other things, but I'm trying to keep it simple, so I don't want/need the distraction of other instructors right now.

HOWEVER...
Since this is in the Soloing Without Scales section, you should be ignoring ALL scale patterns and just pay attention to what he's showing us here.

 

[Tarquinnian]

I can't speak to what you read, but this is not what Griff teaches us.
I'm sure there are notes out of each of each of those scales that will work, but in general here's what Griff teaches:
Assuming an A progression-
Over the I:
- Am Scale or A Major scale
Over the iv (D)
- Am scale
- Dm scale
Over the V (E)
- Am scale
- Em scale
Lost of teachers teach other things, but I'm trying to keep it simple, so I don't want/need the distraction of other instructors right now.

HOWEVER...
Since this is in the Soloing Without Scales section, you should be ignoring ALL scale patterns and just pay attention to what he's showing us here.

 

[Tarquinnian]

Not to split hairs my friend, ALL of the musical phrases in the SWS course are fragments of a major or minor pentatonic scale, are they not?  You should NOT have assumed that I was referring to a i, iv, v progression...because I wasn't!  I erred in not pointing that out in my query; I was referring to an Amin vamp...only ONE chord being played!

My question concerned "where" to play "which" Form ( of the Bminor and the Eminor).  Also, I must say, your reply gives the impression that " ... if Griff didn't say it, it's heresy!" 

Please, in the future, when responding to ANY of my questions or concerns, you need not "keep it simple" for my sake!  Your remark that "...I don't want or need the distraction of other instructors right now", was both uncalled for and...insulting!  Its sentiments like yours that have prevented me from progressing with guitar, since I started to learn...in 1972!!

In the future, I'll post all of my "heretical" questions on the BGU forum, and in doing so, you won't be distracted or otherwise annoyed.

Later Dude,

Tarquinnian

 

[glynnd]

Your response was a little quarrelsome which is possibly why no one else has bothered to answer. That's not the way this forum generally works. You get more flies with honey than with vinegar.

An Am chord is a, c, e, the Am pent scale is a, c, d, e, g. The notes in a Bm pent scale not in the Am Pent scale are b and f#, the 2nd/9th and 6/13th of the scale, so if played over an Am vamp I guess they would imply an Amsus2 or Am9 chord and an Am6 or Am13 chord respectively.  They are also notes from the A major Pentatonic scale. The second (b) will work, not sure about the f#.

The note in the Em Pent scale not in the Am pent scale is b, which will work.

I assume you are seeking box positions to play the additional scales which overlaps the Am Pent scale played in box 1  at the 5th fret.

For the Bm scale try using box 5 (roots 6str/7f, 3str/4f, 1str/7f) and for the Em scale try box 3 (roots 5str7f, 2str/5f) 

 

[MikeS]

Not to split hairs my friend, ALL of the musical phrases in the SWS course are fragments of a major or minor pentatonic scale, are they not?  You should NOT have assumed that I was referring to a i, iv, v progression...because I wasn't!  I erred in not pointing that out in my query; I was referring to an Amin vamp...only ONE chord being played!

My question concerned "where" to play "which" Form ( of the Bminor and the Eminor).  Also, I must say, your reply gives the impression that " ... if Griff didn't say it, it's heresy!" 

Please, in the future, when responding to ANY of my questions or concerns, you need not "keep it simple" for my sake!  Your remark that "...I don't want or need the distraction of other instructors right now", was both uncalled for and...insulting!  Its sentiments like yours that have prevented me from progressing with guitar, since I started to learn...in 1972!!

In the future, I'll post all of my "heretical" questions on the BGU forum, and in doing so, you won't be distracted or otherwise annoyed.

Later Dude,

Tarquinnian

I'm really sorry that you misinterpreted my comments. I was trying to help. Given that most blues is I iv v, I think I made a natural assumption.
As to you reading "if Griff didn't say it, it's heresy" into my message, let me be clearer. I've learned from Griff, therefore all I can speak about is what Griff teaches. If you want to learn from multiple sources, great, have at it, but I have not, therefore I will give you the answer that i got from Griff.
I'm curious as to how you find my telling you that for ME at my point in learning, too many different ways to do the same this is confusing an insult to you.

Lighten up brother. On THIS forum, you should never assume bad intent.

 

[Griff]

Greetings Again, My Fellow Pilgrims!

Here's my question for the day:  I have read somewhere that if, for example, when playing improv over an Amin chord, you could play either the Amin, Bmin, or Emin pentatonic scales (Root, 2nd, or 5th).  Now, I understand playing Form 1 over the A minor (5th position), but which forms of the Bmin and Emin pentatonic scales would I play...and where?  Obviously NOT Form 1 at the 7th position (B), and the 12th position (E)!?

As always, thank you for the guidance, as it is sincerely appreciated!

Tarquinnian

What you're doing is basically replacing modes with pentatonic scales. It's not uncommon... but it's not common in blues. Guys like Eric Johnson have just about made a career out of it.

But you have to uncouple the scales from the patterns. You can play any of the 5 boxes at any time so it's actually a completely irrelevant question but the fact that it's tripping you up helps me to see that you probably aren't ready to dive in to such an advanced concept.

The other thing here is that just because you have an A minor chord, that doesn't necessarily mean that B minor and E minor are valid options - that's only if the A is acting as a ii chord.

If, for example, you were playing something in a minor blues where the A is acting as a vi, that B minor would sound pretty out.

It may be something to dive into at some point, but there is more background material you'll need to have a firmer grasp on to make it work.

Also, this has nothing to do with the Soloing Without Scales course so if you want to continue this conversation I'll move it to the general category. But I'll check back in case you want to take it further and try it out.