Exercise 2-3 in Theory made useful

[Jim Laney]

This exercise created some confusion for me so I wanted to let you know what my difficulty has been: similar to some of the discussion of sharps and flats below...
Ex 2-3 adds accidentals to note reading on the staff many of the notes are like E# and B# which I have worked hard to remember that they are not part of any scale. From a sentence in the lesson, I gather that they are the same as the natural of the note. Why, may sound like a dumb question but I don't know enough to know the advantage to having several ways to describe the same pitch.

If you can point me to the correct understanding, I would appreciate it.

 

[Paleo]

....E# and B# which I have worked hard to remember that they are not part of any scale.

Hmmm. Who ever told you that?

You will discover while doing Lesson 3 that they do exist within certain scales.

For example, they are both in a C# Major scale.

In C# Major, every note is sharp: C# D# E# F# G# A# B#

However, the same pitches can be notated in Db Major: Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C


How pitches are notated depends on the key.

The F# Major scale also requires an E#.

It's equivalent, Gb Major requires a Cb.

And Cb Major requires a Cb & Fb.

Any pitch can be notated as a # of the note below it or a flat of the one above it.


This will happen when following the 2 rules of constructing Major Scales:

1) Every letter used once and only once.

2) Follow the formula: WWHWWWH


Or when altering scales, intervals and chords. (Later Lessons)


Remember that a pitch is a sound.

It can be notated in more than one way.

It will usually depend on the type of composition and when arranging music for different instruments or singers' vocal ranges.

 

[Jim Laney]

Thanks Paleo for the detailed response. The issue is not whether a pitch can be notated in multiple ways but, why is it necessary if the pitch is the same? I think I just don't know enough yet but I find it hard to accept what appears to be illogical. (Robert is also know as Bob and Bobby and Mr. Thomas and the CEO by different people and different circumstances but I know more about those rules than music)

 

[Paleo]

Rather than try to explain it again, I think it best to let you discover this for yourself.

When you get into Lesson 3 and start constructing Major Scales yourself, it will become obvious.

If not, holler back.

 

[Iheartbacon]

but, why is it necessary if the pitch is the same?

It is not necessarily necessary, but if you look at Paleo’s rule #1 above, you may be able to infer why long ago music theologians deemed it desirable.

 

[luckylarry]

I understand that you can only use a letter of the scale one time. So if there is a F in the scale you would use E# Not Fb, then the F and so on. It is the same note spelled differently but used for clarity (which obviously isn't that clear. LOL). Hope this answers you question.

 

[Paleo]

In Major scales, E# occurs in F# Major and C# Major.

In both scales it precedes an existing F#, so it can't be written as F since the letter F is already in use.


One chord example containing an E# would be A augmented: A C# E#.

E# will also occur in B Lydian, where it is the #4: B C# D# E# F# G# A# B.


I'm a firm believer that none of this will make any sense to anybody unless they take the time to work out some of these examples for themselves.

And Griff will provide the opportunity to do just that in the exercises for Lessons 3 (Major Scales), 6 (Basic Chords) and 13 (Modal Formulas).

If one will follow the "rules" for constructing scales, chords and modes as he explains them in these lessons, all will become "obvious".

Trust "The Force".

 

[ScottMFL]

This exercise created some confusion for me so I wanted to let you know what my difficulty has been: similar to some of the discussion of sharps and flats below...
Ex 2-3 adds accidentals to note reading on the staff many of the notes are like E# and B# which I have worked hard to remember that they are not part of any scale. From a sentence in the lesson, I gather that they are the same as the natural of the note. Why, may sound like a dumb question but I don't know enough to know the advantage to having several ways to describe the same pitch.

If you can point me to the correct understanding, I would appreciate it.

James - I just went through the lessons two and three and had the same issue when it came to answering the quiz questions after lesson 3. My confusing came from lesson #2 where Griff presented "blocks", and I recalled that it was stated these are the only notes. E# and B# are not on any blocks. Griff then arranged the blocks and of course B connects to C and E to F, with no sharp in between. This also confused me and I got the last part of the F# Major scale incorrect. I still don't understand this and will need to plow through the responses on this thread.

Maybe I'm missing something but since the scale ends on a half step I don't quite see how it goes from E# to F#. Not disputing the answer as being incorrect, just trying to understand what I missed. I get the rules (can't repeat the letter, etc.); not quite there yet with the logic.

On the positive side I got most of the scales correct so the #-major scales are the one outlier that needs some work. What is strange to me is that I got the E# part of the scale correct and that is not a note on the blocks in lesson #2. Intuition (go with your gut) worked for me on this one; just don't see the 1/2 step jump. Would seem to be more of a full step jump to F#...I'm sure that when I play the scale I'll understand why.

 

[Paleo]

If E to F is a half step and F to F# is a half step and E# to F# is a half step.....then:

E# = F.

It's one pitch, but can be named in more than one way.

E# is played at the same place you play F, you just name it differently to preserve the Major Scale "formula" for F# and C# Major.

(C# Major will also have a B# a half step below C#.)

 

[ScottMFL]

If E to F is a half step and F to F# is a half step and E# to F# is a half step.....then:

E# = F.

It's one pitch, but can be named in more than one way.

E# is played at the same place you play F, you just name it differently to preserve the Major Scale "formula" for F# and C# Major.

(C# Major will also have a B# a half step below C#.)

Thanks Paleo. Your response helped to point out what I need to review.

 

[david moon]

It also relates to the key signatures in written music. If the key signature has a D#, when you see a D in the music, play a D#. Yes it's the same note as Eb, but in the key you're in you have to notate it that way.

 

[Paleo]

Just for fun, try writing out the following triads and check out the 5th(?) in each one:

Aaug, Eaug, Fdim & Bbdim.


(And check out Griff's example of a D7#9 pp. 34-35 in the course manual.)

 

[david moon]

Just for fun, try writing out the following triads and check out the 5th(?) in each one:

Aaug, Eaug, Fdim & Bbdim.


(And check out Griff's example of a D7#9 pp. 34-35 in the course manual.)

Well I think they would all be accidentals, not in the key signature.
A aug- the sharp 5 would be E#
E aug- the 5 would be B#
Fdim the flat 5 would be Cb
Bbdim- the flat 5 would be Fb

How did I do?