counting

Discussion in 'General Music & Guitar Learning' started by mountain man, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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    I've been busy lately skiing and selling my ski townhouse. Skiing then packing, skiing then packing... Anyway, some days I have no time to practice guitar and all I can to do is count and tapping my foot on my drive to and from Reno. So I can get most of the CD driving one way. I've been working on "I'll Drink To That". Has anyone tried tapping your foot to @Griff 's new album? "Bourbon and a Pistol", and "Louisiana Holiday" are really difficult to count. Are these peculiar time signatures? I've tried to tap both feet and I've got close but it's still not to may liking. Does anyone have any clues?
     
  2. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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    OK @Griff , Is Chris playing a syncopated beat on "Bourbon and a Pistol", and "Louisiana Holiday" ?

    I only say this because the beat I key on in Louisiana Holiday my foot is on the up. and also on Bourbon and a Pistol I have to think about playing the guitar and up and down strokes to get close to the beat. That said, it's still tough to keep with it for entirety of both songs.
     
  3. MikeS

    MikeS Allen, TX
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    Yes in Bourbon Chris sounds like he starts it off with a cool rhythm, but both it and Louisiana sound like a straight feel to me.
    (That's just my 2 cents and YMMV).
     
  4. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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    A syncopated straight feel?
     
  5. MikeS

    MikeS Allen, TX
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    There are only two "types of beat Straight 1&2.&3... and swing. 1&u,2&u...
    Syncopation is altering the accent or emphasis within a beat.
     
  6. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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    Yes. On Louisiana Holiday my foot is on the up on the beat I key on. So that would be on an "u". Syncopated?
     
  7. PapaRaptor

    PapaRaptor The Central Scrutinizer
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  8. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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  9. PapaRaptor

    PapaRaptor The Central Scrutinizer
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    I also did the first verse of 'Bourbon' with a click track. It's at 87 bpm.
    https://fuzzypinkstrap.com/audio-examples/GHSBBB-Bourbon-ClickTrack.mp3

    Its tempo sounds more like 174 bpm, largely because the rhythm is 16th notes. If I changed the click track to 174, it would still sound right. the 87 bpm tempo is based on the fact that it's a 12 bar blues. If it was counted at 174 bpm, it would be a 24 bar blues.
     
    #9 PapaRaptor, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  10. MarkDyson

    MarkDyson Blues Hound Wannabe

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    All that higher math makes my eyes cross. :confused:
     
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  11. PapaRaptor

    PapaRaptor The Central Scrutinizer
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    I did very little math. Learning about MIDI capabilitles on my DAW gave me a lot of insight into counting and timing.
    And thank goodness for tap-tempo buttons!
     
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  12. david moon

    david moon Attempting the Blues

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  13. Shodai

    Shodai Blues Junior

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    I've listened to both.

    Burbon and Pistol is straight time, but the guitar is on the upstroke, so syncopated of the beat. The drum party is a straight time groove. Follow the drums, it's what they're there for.

    Louisiana holiday... It's definitely a shuffle, but if you try to play it as a shuffle, or count it as a shuffle you will get lost. The reason for that is it's not a standard shuffle, it's a New Orleans shuffle (As in New Orleans, Louisiana). It's more of a jazz shuffle than a blues shuffle. More specifically, a New Orleans jazz shuffle, and being a jazz beat it incorporates some syncopation.

    Jump on YouTube and search New Orleans Shuffle and you'll find several lessons and examples, and it should clear up all your questions... Or leave you with more questions...

    I will say it was masterfully done, and really captured the New Orleans Shuffle feel.
     
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  14. MikeS

    MikeS Allen, TX
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    I'm no expert for sure, but I think your foot should always be down ON the beat, but the drummer and even the guitar strum (Think Reggae) can accent the up beat.
     
  15. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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    I agree. That's why I thought is was syncopated or on the off beat.
     
  16. Griff

    Griff Chief Cook And Bottle Washer
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    With Bourbon, what's probably messing you up is that the drumbeat doesn't work like a normal "back beat" where the snare is on 2 and 4. On that rhythm, there's a snare on beat 2, but then toms on and around beat 4, so you don't hear it.

    That could easily make it sound like it's slower, but it's actually faster. Check out the version we did at Mammoth - even though Dave is on drums and plays it slightly different, you'll hear me count it in and you can know where the top is and the tempo.

    https://youtu.be/Z2T2Ex8WoHA?t=309

    With Louisiana Holiday, it's in 4 and fairly slow, but it's a "double time swing" where the "e" and "uh" of 1 e and uh, are a little behind.

    So, in a standard swing feel, we could triplet 1/8ths - 1 and uh or 1 trip let - 3 counts per beat.

    A shuffle like Louisiana Holiday is such that, really each beat is divided into 6 pieces, but I don't count the 2nd and 5th. So it's like:

    1 (nothing) e and (nothing) uh.

    If you prefer, count it in 8/8 and use triplets.

    Funky rhythms like that are more modern and a little trickier. I like them because they allow for a little more interesting solos :)
     
  17. mountain man

    mountain man Still got the Blues!

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    I just saw your post. Thank-you for verifying my thoughts on this. I thought something was different about both of these tunes. I've got Bourbon and a Pistol and will work on making the beat feel better for me. And I'll look into the New Orleans shuffle on YouTube. :Beer::Beer: