BGU Lesson 4 and 5

[Blues_Dude]

In Lesson four, Griff teaches that when fingering a 9th chord, rather than fingering the entire chord shape, he states that the main notes needed to ring out clear is on the 4th and 3rd strings.  He plays the whole rhythm using just those two notes.  Great!  But then in lesson 5, his fingering is back to the entire chord shape.  So which is it?  Can I play any or all rhythms using just those two notes or should I finger the entire chord shape?

 

[Silicon Valley Tom]

When it comes to learning, there is no one way to do anything.  I would suggest you learn both ways and as you gain experience you will use one or both within the same piece of music.  Sometimes a piece sounds best with one technique over another.  That is for you to decide.

You will find that you can use chords based upon 2, 3, 4, 5, and six strings (notes).   

Tom

 

[TerryH]

I think what Griff was doing in chapter 4 was introducing the concept that a chord can be played on just two strings. This could be, for example, if you were playing with a band and needed to keep out of the way of the other instruments. But for the purposes of the lesson, you need to try to play the strings as they are written in the TAB.  I think that is quite important or you will miss the point of the lesson.
As you progress through the course you will find that there are different ways to play chords.

 

[jmin]

Like TerryH said, there were two different points to lessons 4 & 5. Lesson 4 showed how the 7th and 9th chords share those two notes. And that they happen to be within 1 fret of each other. So, an entire song could be played using just those 2 notes, within 3 frets. Lesson 5 shows two "more common" 9th forms (used more often than the 2 note version). I agree with Terry, play the lessons exactly as they're written in the tab and you'll learn what Griff is teaching. Good question!

 

[Blues_Dude]

When I look at the Fret, the two notes that he is on for the A7 chord is the G on the fifth fret-4th string, and the C# on the 6th fret-3rd string.  But the D9 notes are different.  For the D9 chord he is using the notes F# on the 4th fret-4th string, and a C on the 5th fret-3rd string. The E9 chord he is using the G# on the 6th fret-4th sting, and the D on the 7th fret-3rd sting.  So looking at these notes, how are the 3 cord shapes sharing the same notes???  Clearly I am missing something here????

 

[HotLks]

I took what Griff said about these two notes and the three chords are that these chords share the same pattern on the fretboard regarding the fourth and fifth strings.

You're right.  As soon as you move this two finger pattern to a different fret, the notes change.  The note pattern on the fret board does not change.

I play the four note little chords as shown when playing the lesson, as opposed to the six note A7 and the five note D9 and E9.  The tab in lesson 5 shows all chords as the four note, "small" forms.  I play them just like it shows for the lesson.  If I was playing a particular song and wanted the fuller tone sound of the bass notes, then I would add the extra note for the tone quality I'm looking for.

See you down the road [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

 

[jmin]

Craig, like Hotlks says, the two-note pattern is what I was referring to in my response. Apologies for the confusion. The main thing I took from the lesson was that you can just slide that two-note pattern (circled in the BGU 1 book on page 23) up and down within those three frets and you do a nice job of covering the chords!

 

[Blues_Dude]

OK...THAT CLEARS IT UP....SO AS LONG AS YOU STAY IN THE PATTERN, YOU ARE SOUNDING THE NOTES THAT ARE NEEDED FOR THE DIFFERENT CHORDS...IS THAT CORRECT?    ONE OTHER THING IF CAN YOU CLEAR  UP FOR ME ABOUT THIS LESSON.  IN THIS TWO NOTE PATTERN HE STARTS OUT IN A TWO NOTE A-7TH CHORD THEN SLIDES UP ONE FRET AND IT BECOMES A D-9TH CHORD, SLIDES DOWN ONE FRET AND IT BECOMES A E-9TH CHORD....SO HOW WOULD I REMAIN IN THIS PATTERN AND CONTINUE IN 7TH CHORDS?  OR AGAIN...IF I WANTED TO PLAY ALL 9TH CHORDS?

 

[JestMe]

This is sounding like it may be a tritone... which is basically the maj 3rd and min 7th of the chord.

A major chord consists of the root, maj 3rd and perfect 5th of the scale.

By adding the 7th to the chord we get '7th' chords, which can be maj 7th, min 7th or dom 7th. Blues often uses dom 7th chords... typically the I7, IV7 and V7 chords, for example C7, F7 & G7 in the key of C.

When adding the 7th [F] to the V chord G [GBD] we get a G7 [GBDF] - Dominant 7th.

For the I & IV chords, when we add the 7th we get Maj 7th chords, rather than dom 7ths. To make them Dom 7th, we have to flat the 7th. So for the I & IV chords we add the minor or flat 7 to the major chord.

So we get
Dom 7th Chords  - Notes
I - C7          - C [root], E [maj 3rd], G [5th], Bb [min 7th or flatted 7th]   
IV - F7         - F [root], A [maj 3rd], C [5th], Eb [min 7th or flatted 7th]
V - G7          - G [root], B [maj 3rd], D [5th], F [min 7th]   - Natural occurring Dom 7th

The 3rd and the 7th notes are KEY notes, as the 3rd establishes the chord mode[minor or major] and the 7th establishes the type of 7th [major 7th, dominant 7th for major chords [minor7th for minor chords]].

If you take a dominant 7th and reduce it to the maj 3rd and min 7th [the 2 KEY notes], it will have a dominant 7th sound. This is a tritone and can sometimes be used in place of the full chord.

Here is an example...
In a I IV V blues in the key of C

The tritones are
I - C7       - E [maj 3rd], Bb [min 7th or flatted 7th]   
IV - F7      - A [maj 3rd], Eb [min 7th or flatted 7th]
V - G7       - B [maj 3rd], F [min 7th]   - Natural occurring Dom 7th


So in playing the tritones on the 3rd & 4th strings you get...

C Tritone - E [4th string 2nd fret - maj 3rd] Bb [3rd string 3rd fret - min 7th]
Sliding the C tritone 1 fret LOWER makes it an F tritone...

F Tritone - Eb [4th string 1st fret - min 7th] A [3rd string 2rd fret - maj 3rd]
because the intervals are inverted... the 4th string note [interval] changes from a maj 3rd of C to a min 7th of F, while the 3rd string note [interval] changes from a min 7th of C to a maj 3rd of F

But wait there is more!!!
If you slide the C tritone 1 fret HIGHER, you get the G tritone
G Tritone - F [4th string 3rd fret - min 7th] B [3rd string 4th fret - maj 3rd]
This is equivalant of sliding the F tritone up 2 frets to become a G tritone.

I hope this helps and doesn't give anyone a headache! ;-)

 

[Blues_Dude]

WOW....thanks for the response but I'm afraid this is so far over my head.  I am a beginner, been attempting to play for 1 year, and was just wanting to get an idea of how to correctly finger the chords.  I'm afraid theory is just to much for me to wrap my mind around right now.  But thanks!

 

[matonanjin]

  I'm afraid theory is just to much for me to wrap my mind around right now.  But thanks!

Of course, Griff has his course on theory.  I can't remember its name but I'm sure it's great.  Craig, when you are ready Edly's  Music Theory for Practical People is an excellent book.  I found it really down to earth, humorous and inexpensive.  It's only $20.  It became my main study guide for theory.  Good luck!

 

[JestMe]

Craig - Sorry for going over your head. I didn't mean for my post to get so long or detailed, it just kind of grew and grew! I hope I didn't confuse you.

I think you had wondered why sliding those 2 notes 1 fret lower would change them from the A to the D chord and basically... the order or interval of the notes reverse within the 2 positions.

It's not important to understand why or how that all works, though someday you may want to ease into learning about the theory of it all. The course and book matonanjin mentioned will be good sources when that time comes.

Keep on playing.

 

[JestMe]

This might be useful...

http://bluesguitarunleashed.com/blog/blues-rhythm-lesson-2-note-easy-chords/

 

[Blues_Dude]

What I wanted to know was why if starting with an A7 chord at the fifth fret, then moving down or up one fret, the chord would change from a 7th chord to a 9th chord?  If I wanted to play an A7, D7 and an E7, how would that be fingered with two chord notes using only the 4th and 3rd strings, or for that matter any other key using 7th chords? In relation, how would A9, D9 and an E9 chords be fingered using just the 4th and 3rd strings or any other key using 9th chords?

 

[jmin]

That's a good question. I see where it's confusing. Technically, if you move a chord up (or down) a fret (half-step) you would end up with a sharp (#) or flat (b) of that chord. So, when you do follow Griff's lesson and move from the A7 down a half step (one fret) you could also say you're playing an Ab7 chord. And if you go up a fret, an A#7 chord.  Since we're not playing a root note (A or D or E), those two notes fit into other chords. If you wanted to use those two notes to play an A7, D7, and E7, they would be played on the 5th fret (A - as shown) then 10th fret (D), then E on the 12th (or 1st) fret.
A real key to knowing what fret they appear on is to know what the ROOT note should be (IF you were playing it). The "7th" style chords have their root on the 6th string. The "9th" style have their root on the 5th string.
Hope that helps!

 

[Blues_Dude]

Thanks so much....that's just what I was looking for.  I understand that they share the same set of notes but just couldn't wrap my mind around the concept of the 7th and 9th chord.  The root note makes perfect sense and I can see that in my minds eye when playing in different keys.  I really appreciate everyone's response.  I think I can move past this and really use this in my future growth.  Thanks again

 

[Annie]

That's a good question. I see where it's confusing. 
A real key to knowing what fret they appear on is to know what the ROOT note should be (IF you were playing it). The "7th" style chords have their root on the 6th string. The "9th" style have their root on the 5th string.
Hope that helps!

Jimin
Thanks for making that so easy to understand. That's really helpful and was something I needed to know too.

 

[HotLks]

I like to make notes of the things that are important to focus on.  I have a section in my notes that show the chord shape, name and most importantly, the string the root note is on.  Otherwise, I can't find them when I need them.

Jmin is right.  Look at the whole chord shape, look at the chord name and find which string and fret the root note is on.  Otherwise playing them will be tough if not impossible.  Locating the root note anchors the chord and allows you to find the right position.

Example:  If the chord is an A7 played at the 5th fret you know that pattern is named off the 6th string.  If the chord is a D9 played at the 4th fret you know if you extend the chord to the 5th string, the root is on the 5th fret, which is a D.  You have to step back and look at the large picture to see it.

Griff gives enough information about these chords to find the root note.  You just need to look where it's played and where the root note is, given the name.

Does that make sense? 

See you down the road [smiley=thumbsup.gif]