Counting into a solo

[JohnMachado]

Good afternoon,
I was wondering how to go about counting the notes to the opening riff to the solo in Pink Floyd's "Brick in the Wall". I'm relatively new to counting and can't seem to get it correct. I've used a metronome to keep time, but feel that there's a better way to count it out. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. TIA

 

[Paleo]

First figure out the count without a metronome.


Measure 1 has a half rest (beats 1 & 2), 4 16th notes (beat 3), then 2 8th notes (beat 4). Measure 2, a whole note.

I would count: 1 2 3 e and uh 4 and for measure 1, then 1 2 3 4 for measure 2.

 

[JohnMachado]

First figure out the count without a metronome.


Measure 1 has a half rest (beats 1 & 2), 4 16th notes (beat 3), then 2 8th notes (beat 4). Measure 2, a whole note.

I would count: 1 2 3 e and uh 4 and for measure 1, then 1 2 3 4 for measure 2.

Thank you very much for the response. Unfortunately, it only confused me further. I think that I'm going to have to find a course on counting as I've done the 1,2,3,4 and the 1,e,and, uh, 2, e, etc. I've not seen counting combos that used both.

 

[Paleo]

I've not seen counting combos that used both.

You could be consistent and count 16th notes all the way through: 1 e and uh 2 e and uh, etc.

But you don't need to since you won't be striking a new note on every count.

With a half rest to start I don't need to count subdivisions: 1 e and uh 2 e and uh.

I can just count on the beats: "1 2 ", then come in on beat 3.

Or I could count the rest as "1 e and uh 2 e and uh" and come in on 3. It's up to you.


Beat 3 has 4 sixteenths notes so I do need to count the subdivisions and play on each one: 3 e and uh

Beat 4 is 2 eighth notes so I count 4 and and play a note on each count.

Or again, I could count 4 e and uh, but I'm only playing a new note on the 4 and the and.


So counting 16ths the entire 2 measures would look like this:


1 e and uh 2 e and uh 3 e and uh 4 e and uh 1 e and uh 2 e and uh 3 e and uh 4 e and uh


but I'm only playing a new note on the counts that are boldface and underlined.

So I would count it : 1 2 3 e and uh 4 and 1 2 3 4

I prefer not to count all those e's and's and uh's when I don't need to.

But you may want/need to.


You could count 4 subdivisions for every beat throughout the entire song.

But there's no need to if 16th notes only occur infrequently.

If there's a lot of phrases using long 16th note runs, you'll then want to be counting 4 subdivisions.


Rather than counting an entire song using the same subdivision, you could take it measure by measure or phrase by phrase and use whatever count is needed for that particular measure or phrase. You could even go beat by beat.

If there are no 16th notes, you don't need to divide the beat by 4.

If it's all quarter notes you don't have to subdivide at all.

You subdivide based on the smallest note value you are dealing with.

 

[Paleo]

Here's some tab I found online.

 

[david moon]

Paleo's tab post is useful, but if you don't get the "bar" notation for eighth note or the double bar for sixteenths it might not help much.

Maybe what you're hung up on is exactly where to come in. I think if you are counting along, the solo comes in right on the down beat of 3 with a flurry of 16th notes as in the tab above. If you don't nail the entrance you will be off forever.

 

[Paleo]

The note values have been discussed ad nauseam in my descriptions of 2 ways you can count this.

The tab was an "afterthought" to simply show where the notes are.

However, if one does understand the "bars" below the tab, they will realize they corroborate the note values I described.

And it also shows the lick starting on beat 3 as I described in both ways you could count it.

It wasn't meant to be viewed in isolation.

 

[JohnMachado]

You could be consistent and count 16th notes all the way through: 1 e and uh 2 e and uh, etc.

But you don't need to since you won't be striking a new note on every count.

With a half rest to start I don't need to count subdivisions: 1 e and uh 2 e and uh.

I can just count on the beats: "1 2 ", then come in on beat 3.

Or I could count the rest as "1 e and uh 2 e and uh" and come in on 3. It's up to you.


Beat 3 has 4 sixteenths notes so I do need to count the subdivisions and play on each one: 3 e and uh

Beat 4 is 2 eighth notes so I count 4 and and play a note on each count.

Or again, I could count 4 e and uh, but I'm only playing a new note on the 4 and the and.


So counting 16ths the entire 2 measures would look like this:


1 e and uh 2 e and uh 3 e and uh 4 e and uh 1 e and uh 2 e and uh 3 e and uh 4 e and uh


but I'm only playing a new note on the counts that are boldface and underlined.

So I would count it : 1 2 3 e and uh 4 and 1 2 3 4

I prefer not to count all those e's and's and uh's when I don't need to.

But you may want/need to.


You could count 4 subdivisions for every beat throughout the entire song.

But there's no need to if 16th notes only occur infrequently.

If there's a lot of phrases using long 16th note runs, you'll then want to be counting 4 subdivisions.


Rather than counting an entire song using the same subdivision, you could take it measure by measure or phrase by phrase and use whatever count is needed for that particular measure or phrase. You could even go beat by beat.

If there are no 16th notes, you don't need to divide the beat by 4.

If it's all quarter notes you don't have to subdivide at all.

You subdivide based on the smallest note value you are dealing with.

Ah, gotcha. I think I understand. The 1,e,and,uh,2,e are always there. You're just choosing not to count them as you're comfortable with leaving them out until you need them. For me, it's one of the skills that I'm new at and trying to develop, so I might need to slow the song down and count all of the 16th notes until I learn to "hear" the places to leave them out.

 

[JohnMachado]

Paleo's tab post is useful, but if you don't get the "bar" notation for eighth note or the double bar for sixteenths it might not help much.

Maybe what you're hung up on is exactly where to come in. I think if you are counting along, the solo comes in right on the down beat of 3 with a flurry of 16th notes as in the tab above. If you don't nail the entrance you will be off forever.

Thank you for your reply. In this case, I am at a place where I understand and "read" bar/tab notation, but have not developed the ability to transfer that understanding to actual application.
And it's definitely true that if I miss the entrance, I'm cooked, lol.

 

[JohnMachado]

The note values have been discussed ad nauseam in my descriptions of 2 ways you can count this.

The tab was an "afterthought" to simply show where the notes are.

However, if one does understand the "bars" below the tab, they will realize they corroborate the note values I described.

And it also shows the lick starting on beat 3 as I described in both ways you could count it.

It wasn't meant to be viewed in isolation.

Thank you very much for the effort that you put in to count it out for me. It took a second but I believe I understand. It's like counting the 1, 2,, 3 out loud, but whispering the e,and, uh silently in my head until I need them out loud. Or any variation thereof. Is that correct?

 

[MikeS]

Play it as slowly as you need to in order to play the right note on the right beat. Even if that means you have to insert pause4s where there are none.
1e&a 2e&a .............. 3e&a ....4e......&a (the dots indicate time passing, the bold characters indicate notes to be struck.)
This will not work against a metronome (which is why Paleo said not to use one earlier).
It is FAR more important to play on the right count than i it is to play straight through at first.

 

[JohnMachado]

Play it as slowly as you need to in order to play the right note on the right beat. Even if that means you have to insert pause4s where there are none.
1e&a 2e&a .............. 3e&a ....4e......&a (the dots indicate time passing, the bold characters indicate notes to be struck.)
This will not work against a metronome (which is why Paleo said not to use one earlier).
It is FAR more important to play on the right count than i it is to play straight through at first.

Gotcha. Thank you. Yeah, this seems to be a good example of where getting the note timing comes in over tempo timing to the song.

 

[Paleo]

It's like counting the 1, 2,, 3 out loud, but whispering the e,and, uh silently in my head until I need them out loud. Or any variation thereof. Is that correct?

That'll work.

 

[JohnMachado]

That'll work.

Thank you. Definitely gives me a lot to work on.

 

[MikeS]

All you really NEED is the one (1, e, & or a) that has a note associated with it. In reality most people find it easier to look at a piece of music, see what the MAJORITY of the notes are (Are there a lot of bars with 16th notes or are they mostly 8th notes?). Then use that count.
If they are all 8th notes except that ONE bar has a run of 16th notes, then I'd count them aa 1& 2& 3& 4& (unless there is a modulation at the top, then it would 1&a 2&a 3&a 4&a), then when the 16th notes come around count them as 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 4e&a.
8th 8th 8th 16th
1& 2& 3& 4e&a

 

[JohnMachado]

All you really NEED is the one (1, e, & or a) that has a note associated with it. In reality most people find it easier to look at a piece of music, see what the MAJORITY of the notes are (Are there a lot of bars with 16th notes or are they mostly 8th notes?). Then use that count.
If they are all 8th notes except that ONE bar has a run of 16th notes, then I'd count them aa 1& 2& 3& 4& (unless there is a modulation at the top, then it would 1&a 2&a 3&a 4&a), then when the 16th notes come around count them as 1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 4e&a.
8th 8th 8th 16th
1& 2& 3& 4e&a

Thank you, this actually will have me working on a couple of skills at the same time, Counting and getting more proficient at reading notation.

 

[MikeS]

Thank you, this actually will have me working on a couple of skills at the same time, Counting and getting more proficient at reading notation.

That has always been my issue/problem with tabs. I can't read notation (except note duration values) so I have to bounce between tab and notation to see the duration of each note. It's not an easy way to play.