Another mix question re: Ghost Riders

Elwood

Blues
I'm trying to "train in" good stuff and train out not so good. Relative levels are still a black art to me. I'm not trying to stretch you guys out but sometimes you just have to ask, I'm asking.

On Ghost Riders the sound I was going for would be:
Guitar - clear and warm on the bottom with enough mids for good definition and highs to shimmer.
Drums- snappy and tight, keep a beat but drop it for variety and impact at times, splashes, crashes and toms for drama
voice - clear and legible

I sent this to a drummer buddy of mine. He is not one to feign approval but he made me smile. This is a his feedback on the drums...
1) He "understands my enthusiasm" for the new program :), but felt the drums were too loud in the mix overall.
2) The cymbals were too loud and harsh.
3) And (here is the one I love) he was surprised at some of the hit placement from the program, seems a bit off somehow.

So in order
1) I don't know, I was used to hearing lots of drums
2) I don't know, my audiograph agrees....what?????Eh?????
3) busted, I diddled with just about every bar. Some worked and some didn't. I also forgot, or didn't know, to quantize. I guess I needed to do it to individual blocks. When I did it to the whole drum track it was regrettable. I just love that he got the "Whatzat?" reaction.

So, what did you hear? If you don't mind indulging me, the tips you guys share are what rattles around in my head when I trying to solve little challenges with this stuff.


(BTW: my buddy isn't a crumudgeon, he just calls 'em how they come in. He did say my sweet slothead records well, I like that guitar OK :)
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
I gave it another couple listens and I agree to a point with your drummer friend. If I were mixing it, I would have had the kick a little lower in the mix. Since you don't have a bass on the track, the kick draws a lot more attention to itself than it would otherwise. On the opening, I would have only used the kick on the first beat until you start singing. I think you also could completely do away with the cymbals and just use the kick, stick snare and the shaker. Your singing and playing keep the interest going in the song and anything other than a simple beat detracts from the main focus, your singing and guitar.

That's just my opinion, and we all know about opinions...
grin.gif


Afterthought: I didn't hear anything that sounded like you needed to quantize anything. A real drummer will never be 100% spot on and nothing you had on the track was far enough off the beat (actually nothing sounded off) to warrant quantizing.
 
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Elwood

Blues
Interesting, I assume that "cross sticking" and "stick snare" are the same rim shots I popped in there.
I love the one hit start thing, you said it, you use it first! Great start idea!
My mix idea was driven by what was running in my head, (not saying that was necessarily good though). During that intro thing I was looking for that old "revival" type boom-boom-boom against the guitar. Funny that Arty brought up the history from his side of the pond, I was thinking if I could deliver that guitar part right it would almost have a Scottish type feel, a little snap and bounce in it. Against the boom-boom right? Anyway. I ran into this with Griff coaching me on something one time; if I'm going to try to express "my" idea, I need to do it as clearly as possible. I sort of ran both ways with this, I actually auditioned a bunch of real KA-BOOM bass drums, at least I shied away from them.
Opinion schminion, I appreciate it!
I think it does some quantizing on it's own, I could not have gotten that lucky. Hey, a cool thing. One time (I can do it again, I know I can) when I imported my drum track into Reaper it wrote in all the section divisions along the Reaper track time line thing. Since my drum section changes were sometimes in coincidence with a musical event all I had to do is add labels for my recording sanity.
I am sure glad I did not get a drum pedal! EZ drummer makes so many things just pop up while I mess with it.
Thanks Again!!!
 

Elwood

Blues
You sure have more than.02 Moto! A different perspective, yes!
I guess I'm still not really used to hearing my voice so I don't mess with it much. I plan to learn how to synthesize harmonies for sections. That requires for me to learn to deal with parts of tracks and how to do the voices. I should have a race to see if I could learn a harmony line faster, one problem...I'm barely scraping by with the melody line sometimes, I'm sure no Emmy Lou or Graham Nash for harmony, probably best to synthesize. Regardless, I will be thinking of this in the future, thanks! Maybe try to fatten it up somehow.
You guys know by now, when I ask this stuff I'm not really looking to go back and make what I did all better. Oh I try a few things to imprint them, but the real value comes later when I'm not thinking about this specific things and I remember, "oh yeah..."
Papa, your Steve Morse/Gory Moore post just rolled in. Nice sound, nice tracks! I get what you say about the bass, it's there doing it's job, and that sounds good. He gets around on that guitar huh? Wow! That Gary Moore thing is interesting!
I see another balancing act for me coming up. The slothead has such a nice bass with that mahogany, and I'm slowly starting to be able to carry a simple bass line on it sometimes. I will have to do some musical zen hoodoo to get a line off my jazz bass in there with that one. Might drive me off to a different guitar for that stuff. Or at least think about bass lines that compliment each other rather than clutter the bottom.
Thanks again guys! This stuff goes "in the file" for sure. Sometimes I still ponder Moto's box he makes of reverb and delay.
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
You sure have more than.02 Moto! A different perspective, yes!
I guess I'm still not really used to hearing my voice so I don't mess with it much. I plan to learn how to synthesize harmonies for sections. That requires for me to learn to deal with parts of tracks and how to do the voices. I should have a race to see if I could learn a harmony line faster, one problem...I'm barely scraping by with the melody line sometimes, I'm sure no Emmy Lou or Graham Nash for harmony, probably best to synthesize. Regardless, I will be thinking of this in the future, thanks! Maybe try to fatten it up somehow.
You guys know by now, when I ask this stuff I'm not really looking to go back and make what I did all better. Oh I try a few things to imprint them, but the real value comes later when I'm not thinking about this specific things and I remember, "oh yeah..."
Papa, your Steve Morse/Gory Moore post just rolled in. Nice sound, nice tracks! I get what you say about the bass, it's there doing it's job, and that sounds good. He gets around on that guitar huh? Wow! That Gary Moore thing is interesting!
I see another balancing act for me coming up. The slothead has such a nice bass with that mahogany, and I'm slowly starting to be able to carry a simple bass line on it sometimes. I will have to do some musical zen hoodoo to get a line off my jazz bass in there with that one. Might drive me off to a different guitar for that stuff. Or at least think about bass lines that compliment each other rather than clutter the bottom.
Thanks again guys! This stuff goes "in the file" for sure. Sometimes I still ponder Moto's box he makes of reverb and delay.

The Gary Moore thing must have been a follow on. I posted only the Morse clip. After I did, I took another listen to your tune and decided they are a completely different vibe and it might not be applicable to your version. so I dumped the post. For some reason, I keep thinking the song wants to be a slow one, but the drums keep it from being so. So, I went and looked up a copy of the song by Vaughan Monroe. Surprisingly (or not), I got the same "slow song, fast tempo" vibe from it. My old brain must be wearing out to entertain two such ideas in the same song.
 

Elwood

Blues
Well, too late, you tube will never let me forget I saw it. Very nice!
I didn't listen to anything before I did this but, MM had made a comment on one of my posts about a "galloping" that popped up as the appropriate feel, so that is busy. The other is I tend to like beats or grooves that change up, maybe more than once. I get that is not wildly popular. When done poorly it just sounds bad too. (hey, the banjo picking has my right hand out shopping for pattern changes on it's own sometimes when I'm on the guitar. Oh man!)
WebMD is in...your brain will be fine, you have just put it through some unusual stress with repeated exposure.
Vaugan Monroe huh? Now I'll have to go listen.
Ha!
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
Vaugan Monroe huh? Now I'll have to go listen.
Geez, I just looked it up on Wikipedia. I wonder if there is anyone who HASN'T covered it?
Vaughan Monroe's version is the one that popped into my mind. I wasn't sure if it was him or Frankie Laine's version I'm remembering... He covered it, too!
 
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