Strat Treble Bleed?

Bernie Fitz

Blues Junior
Looking for some thoughts on treble bleed mods for a strat. Anyone who has done one (or had one done) do you feel it was worthwhile? Did it make enough of a difference, or maybe too much where you wanted to tame the highs afterwards?
Thanks,

Bernie
 

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
Griff uses them a lot.
I changed the pickups and added a treble bleed to my MIA Strat and now I hate the sound I'm getting.
Could be I don't like the pickups I chose
Could be My installation of the pickups?
Could be the treble bleed.
Who KNows?
 

Bernie Fitz

Blues Junior
Griff uses them a lot.
I changed the pickups and added a treble bleed to my MIA Strat and now I hate the sound I'm getting.
Could be I don't like the pickups I chose
Could be My installation of the pickups?
Could be the treble bleed.
Who KNows?
Yeah I get a lot of that doing a search. It seems almost evenly split between people who are happy with the results and those who aren't.
I'm going to hold off for right now.

Thanks
 

MikeR

Guitar Challenged
Staff member
If you have your volume knob full on, there's no difference (or shouldn't be). When you tune your volume down, it comes down to whether you prefer the cut in treble that occurs (without a treble bleed circuit) or not. Some people like to have that tone effect on the volume knob. Personally, I like the tone to remain the same when I turn down the volume, so I like the treble bleed.
 

Bernie Fitz

Blues Junior
If you have your volume knob full on, there's no difference (or shouldn't be). When you tune your volume down, it comes down to whether you prefer the cut in treble that occurs (without a treble bleed circuit) or not. Some people like to have that tone effect on the volume knob. Personally, I like the tone to remain the same when I turn down the volume, so I like the treble bleed.
That was my thinking but after reading how a lot of people have not been happy with it and many others love it I'm going to put it on hold for now and look into it some more. Maybe I'll just have to keep the volume up all the time?
 

MikeR

Guitar Challenged
Staff member
Well, the way it's wired, if you don't like it, you can just snip it off. You don't have to rewire anything.
 

Rancid Rumpboogie

Blues Mangler
If you have your volume knob full on, there's no difference (or shouldn't be). When you tune your volume down, it comes down to whether you prefer the cut in treble that occurs (without a treble bleed circuit) or not. Some people like to have that tone effect on the volume knob. Personally, I like the tone to remain the same when I turn down the volume, so I like the treble bleed.
MikeR is correct. I happen to like it, others don't. But as MikeR points out, it is no big deal, the way it is wired takes only a snip of one wire to disable it with no harm of any kind done. You can even wire the little treble bleed circuit/network on to two wires with little alligator clips, solder two wires to the two connecting points on your pot and leave them hanging out under the pick guard before putting the pick guard back on, and clip it in or out trying your guitar with it and without it.

But there are several different treble bleed circuits and they don't all sound the same.

This is the one I use. It works well in my Strats, my Teles and my 'bucker guitars.
no-load2.jpg

Another way to increase treble response and be able to turn that on or off is to use no-load tone pots, which I also happen to use in all of my guitars. Every tone pot bleeds a little of your signal through the capacitor even when they are on 10 (full treble) ... a no-load pot eliminates this when your tone pot is dialed up to full-treble. You can buy ready-made 250K no-load tone pots, or you can make your own from a standard pot (which is what I do because I also use this in my humbucker guitars with 500K pots and ready-made no-load 500K pots are nearly impossible to find).
In this video the dude says it disconnects the resistance of the pot, which isn't exactly true ... it disconnects the resistance of the pot as well as disconnects the capacitor (so it is just as if your pickup is hard-wired with no tone pot at all).
And here is how to make your own.
 
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aleclee

Tribe of One
IME, the cap value makes or breaks the thing. If you look around on the web, there's not a lot of consensus about what the "right" value is. I ended up buying a box with a ton of different caps and a set of alligator clips so I could experiment with different values before making the soldering iron commitment.
 

Rancid Rumpboogie

Blues Mangler
IME, the cap value makes or breaks the thing. If you look around on the web, there's not a lot of consensus about what the "right" value is. I ended up buying a box with a ton of different caps and a set of alligator clips so I could experiment with different values before making the soldering iron commitment.
And ... what did you settle on???

I once went through that drill to see how much difference there were between .22uf capacitors brand to brand and material to material for my tone pots. Didn't even test .47uf caps because they are all just too muddy for me. I found next to no difference whatsoever between about 60 different caps. The Russian milspec paper in oil caps sounded just ever so slightly better to my ear than anything else, so since then that is all I have used. All in all, in a practical sense, it was probably a waste of three days, and any old .22uf cap would work just fine. :whistle::confused:
 
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Silicon Valley Tom

It makes me happpy to play The Blues!
I think that the capacitors used to "modify or enhance" the tone of a guitar are very subjective. There have been many comments made on this subject, from different sources, which includes results using ceramic, mylar, and paper capacitors, with and without oil. Add to the list the relationship of the pickups used, and the pots (types and values). When all is said and done, you have a few more things to twist to get the "desired result". The audience may not even notice all your hard earned work to attain the tone you like. :eek:

Tom
 

straightblues

Blues Junior
It is a super easy mod to do. If you don't know how to use a soldering iron, this would be the perfect project to learn on. I say go for it and see if it is for you.

Having said that, I am personally not a fan of treble bleed circuits. But from my read of forums over the years, I think it is about a 50 50 thing. Plenty of people love them.
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
And ... what did you settle on???

I once went through that drill to see how much difference there were between .22uf capacitors brand to brand and material to material for my tone pots. Didn't even test .47uf caps because they are all just too muddy for me. I found next to no difference whatsoever between about 60 different caps. The Russian milspec paper in oil caps sounded just ever so slightly better to my ear than anything else, so since then that is all I have used. All in all, in a practical sense, it was probably a waste of three days, and any old .22uf cap would work just fine. :whistle::confused:

Hey RR, I think you mean .022µf and .047µf not .22 and .47. You would be playing through some very serious mud otherwise. Even the P-Bass only uses a .1µf capacitor and that sucker is seriously muddy at anything less than wide open.
 

Rancid Rumpboogie

Blues Mangler
Hey RR, I think you mean .022µf and .047µf not .22 and .47. You would be playing through some very serious mud otherwise. Even the P-Bass only uses a .1µf capacitor and that sucker is seriously muddy at anything less than wide open.
You is right. My bad ... dyslexia and all that ... brain playing through some serious mud.
 
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Bernie Fitz

Blues Junior
Thanks everyone for your replies. Unfortunately I've never used a soldering iron in my life and I'm not the handiest person to begin with. A lot of what I read agrees with some of you that you may need to try several types and values of components before finding what you like. Since I need to have someone do it for me multiple tris won't be an option. I do appreciate the help; I just wish your advice wasn't wasted on my dumb ass.
 

Al Holloway

Devizes UK
I like the treble roll off on the volume pot. If you set the guitar for a lead tone at large vol setting and then roll off to sit back in the mix a little treble roll off can help with this. Or if you set the vol at say 7 for a good rhythm tone and then turn up for a solo a little extra treble will help cut through. I have only tried a treble bleed on a 50's wired guitar, which I hated. However it was really the 50's mod I didn't like so maybe I should retry the treble bleed. I actually have one set on a couple of croc clips somewhere.

cheers

Al.
 

CapnDenny1

Student Of The Blues
To quote PRS, "It all makes a difference to one degree or another."

I'm sure we could get you going on the soldering. Hey, I learned, and I'm an Engineer! I was actually a tech for about 5 years before I earned my degree going to school nights. But even so the guys in the lab yell, "Engineer in the lab!" when one of us walks in to try and keep us away from the soldering irons. ;-)

If you do a lot of volume pot changes when you are playing, as Griff often talks about using the volume knob on the guitar to clean up or make dirty the sound from the amp, without touching the amp. Then you probably need something like that. If you either just switch on a pedal, or change channels on the amp to make it dirty, then chances are you won't need to change your volume on the guitar much. Then it isn't that needed.

You can always adjust your tone down a tad and make the amp a little brighter. Then if you turn down the volume on the guitar, tweak the tone up on the guitar as well.

If you watch people that really care about their tone, they are constantly adjusting the volume and tone controls on the guitar.
 

Silicon Valley Tom

It makes me happpy to play The Blues!
To quote PRS, "It all makes a difference to one degree or another."

I'm sure we could get you going on the soldering. Hey, I learned, and I'm an Engineer! I was actually a tech for about 5 years before I earned my degree going to school nights. But even so the guys in the lab yell, "Engineer in the lab!" when one of us walks in to try and keep us away from the soldering irons. ;-)

If you do a lot of volume pot changes when you are playing, as Griff often talks about using the volume knob on the guitar to clean up or make dirty the sound from the amp, without touching the amp. Then you probably need something like that. If you either just switch on a pedal, or change channels on the amp to make it dirty, then chances are you won't need to change your volume on the guitar much. Then it isn't that needed.

You can always adjust your tone down a tad and make the amp a little brighter. Then if you turn down the volume on the guitar, tweak the tone up on the guitar as well.

If you watch people that really care about their tone, they are constantly adjusting the volume and tone controls on the guitar.
Dennis, your words are so true! Keep engineers away from soldering irons! ;)

I spent several years as an electronics technician, and was NASA Certified to solder. The NASA Inspectors used a 20 X eye loop to examine your work, which was used to help put men on the moon. I attended engineering college at night, and when I became an engineer, people could not believe I could solder! (n) Your words bring back lots of good memories. :)

By the way, I learned to solder when I was five years old. I blame that on my dad! :eek:

Tom
 

CapnDenny1

Student Of The Blues
Speaking of Father’s day....

My Dad used to tell me..”When they were handing out brains, you thought they said trains and said Give me one that goes whoooo-whoooo!!

But you know I still hear that whistle!
 

PapaRaptor

Father Vyvian O'Blivion
Staff member
My Dad used to tell me..”When they were handing out brains, you thought they said trains and said Give me one that goes whoooo-whoooo!!
But you know I still hear that whistle!
My dad used to tell the same joke, but a different punch line.
When they were handing out brains, you thought they said trains and said, "No thanks, I'm not taking any today."

I like yours better!
 

steve o

Student Of The Blues
My dad used to tell the same joke, but a different punch line.
When they were handing out brains, you thought they said trains and said, "No thanks, I'm not taking any today."

I like yours better!

I like both of yours better than mine. My dad told one of his buddies that when they were handing out brains, Steve thought they said stains and said I already have one in my diaper, I don’t need any :-( No worries, I proved him wrong and now he’s proud of me :)
 
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