AAP Pink Floyd analysis - Wish You Were Here

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
@Griff , So we determined (painfully) that the two parts of the song are in D and then G. Where we solo in D Dorian (or D Ionian Major mode?) or Em Dorian minor mode? on the first part. Obviously I'm confused. Do we solo in G Ionian (Major mode) in the second part? What is the trick in determining which modes apply? The chords used that cause us to change Major or minor modes?
 
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Terry B

Humble student of the blues
The way I've always approached soloing this song, although not aware till yesterday that there were two parts, was E minor / G major pentatonic throughout.
 
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mountain man

Still got the Blues!
The way I've always approached soloing this song, although not aware till yesterday that there were two parts, was E minor / G major pentatonic throughout.
That is what I would do on this song too. After Griff's discussion it's not clear.
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
You can use E minor pentatonic and G Major Pentatonic, rather than E Dorian and G Ionian.

You can always use the pentatonic, rather than the diatonic mode.

In this case, the two pentatonic scales are relative, but the modes aren't. :confused:
 
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Terry B

Humble student of the blues
Hopefully we have more discussion on this because I don't think they went modal on this song, but I have been wrong before. o_O
 

Paleo

Student Of The Blues
You can solo using Em/G Major pentatonic throughout.

However, the tonal center/key/mode of the progression changes regardless.

There are two things to consider.

The mode of the progression and what scale to use for soloing over it.


The solo may not go "modal" even though the progression is.


The chords are in and change modes whether one chooses to solo using diatonic or pentatonic scales.
 
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Randy S

Blues Junior
The way I've always approached soloing this song, although not aware till yesterday that there were two parts, was E minor / G major pentatonic throughout.
Actually a great place to start if you think about it a little.

Em Dorian is in the key of D. Em Aeolian is the key of G. Em pentatonic works over both Dorian and Aeolian so it works over the whole progression.

Now, for some spice, through some C#,s (natural 6 or Dorian) into your scale over the first part, and some C's (b6 or Aeolian) into your scale over the second part. Mix in some technique and some rhythm (going between 1/16th's and triplets) and "Voila" you got a great sounding solo. May not be what Gilmour played. Might be better. It would be your solo in your voice.
 

Griff

Vice Assistant General Manager
Staff member
If the first part is the key of D, and it is, then D Major is the key. You can use the D major scale until the cows come home and it'll sound great... even though you won't really be playing D Major (huh?)

Because, the TONAL CENTER, not the key, is Emin. That's the chord that sounds like home base. It's the sound that the song keeps coming back to. Emin, in the key of D, is the ii chord, so E Dorian would be the actual sound that we will hear.

You could play D Major/Ionian, E Dorian, F# Phrgian, G Lydian, A Mixolydian, B Aeolian/Natural Minor, or even C# Locrian, and they'll all work, because they are all relative and have the same set of notes.

But at the end of the day, they'll all sound like E Dorian because that's what the chords say - and the chords always win.

The 2nd part, being in the key of G means G Major scale - full stop. You can play A Dorian, B Phrygian, C Lydian, D Mixolydian, E Aeolian, or F# Locrian because they are all the same notes... but the chords, to me, say G Major so that's just where I'd keep my brain.

Playing A Dorian instead of G Major is literally nothing but a brain exercise - your fingers play the same notes. So just pick a mode, mentally, that makes sense, and play. If you don't love the sound, put your brain on a different mode of the same key and see if you like that better.

Once you put your brain into a certain mode, it's going to navigate to certain notes as being more important... that's all. It's totally mental, the notes won't change between relative modes.
 

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
If the first part is the key of D, and it is, then D Major is the key. You can use the D major scale until the cows come home and it'll sound great... even though you won't really be playing D Major (huh?)

Because, the TONAL CENTER, not the key, is Emin. That's the chord that sounds like home base. It's the sound that the song keeps coming back to. Emin, in the key of D, is the ii chord, so E Dorian would be the actual sound that we will hear.

You could play D Major/Ionian, E Dorian, F# Phrgian, G Lydian, A Mixolydian, B Aeolian/Natural Minor, or even C# Locrian, and they'll all work, because they are all relative and have the same set of notes.

But at the end of the day, they'll all sound like E Dorian because that's what the chords say - and the chords always win.

The 2nd part, being in the key of G means G Major scale - full stop. You can play A Dorian, B Phrygian, C Lydian, D Mixolydian, E Aeolian, or F# Locrian because they are all the same notes... but the chords, to me, say G Major so that's just where I'd keep my brain.

Playing A Dorian instead of G Major is literally nothing but a brain exercise - your fingers play the same notes. So just pick a mode, mentally, that makes sense, and play. If you don't love the sound, put your brain on a different mode of the same key and see if you like that better.

Once you put your brain into a certain mode, it's going to navigate to certain notes as being more important... that's all. It's totally mental, the notes won't change between relative modes.
Thanks Griff. This helps. I was watching "Frank Gambale Modes, No More Mysteries" and he suggests looking at the modes on the fret board as one continuous mode spanning the entire fret board which makes sense to me. Years ago I actually posted them on boxed graph paper for the diatonic scales. I didn't realize at the time I was actually looking at a Major or a minor mode. Although I'd have to say his "No More Mysteries" does not explain how the chords work to make the sounds different, for me it's easier than thinking of each different box and switching to another Greek lexicon. Clearly, this is all "advanced math" and I'll have to let this all incubate for a while and work through nuances and differences and see what works best for me. From 5000 ft and not getting into the weeds I think I should be able to take all of the modes, pick one, and see the entire fret board. :eek:

BTW. just noticed that the one AAP session I missed was "1-21-2020 - Tall Chords With Modes". I'll be watching that session real soon.
 
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