What do you guys think? Acoustic pickup

[blackcoffeeblues]

Since I have pretty much consigned my self to acoustic---I am unhappy with the "Sound hole" pickup I been using---So here's the Question ---do you think I should have a pickup installed or buy an acoustic electric.
I do not like "under saddle" pickups I have played many of them and have never found one I like---The negative to having a pickup installed is that it would require cutting into the upper bout shoulder which I am not to wild about doing....(understandably)---

Now here is the negative to buying a new one #1 budget---#2 I really never found one of those I was happy with either----out of all of them I have played I think the Ovation would be my choice- (they sound great plugged in but unplugged not so much)--(1st being a "RAINTREE" carbon fiber)---But that's where the budget comes into play ---14 to 1600 simoles that's pretty steep. If I knew for sure that the installation would not harm the integrity of the wood on my Martin, I would go for it but I don't know; never had one done before---SO?????

 

[MikeS]

I'm with you on the whole cutting into it to install a pickup, so my answer would be buy and electric acoustic.
I have an old Ovation (the large body) and it is still my favorite sounding acoustic both plugged in and not amplified. Having said that, I almost never play it because the combination of the big bulging back and my big bulging gut make it uncomfortable to play.
You will have to kiss a ton of frogs to find a good one under $1400. (I paid $1800 for my Taylor 524ce, but it's a great guitar)

 

[Bernie Fitz]

There are a number of pickups that are installed through the bottom of the guitar, replacing the strap button with a protruding input jack like those found on acoustic/electrics. Some of these use a pickup that mounts across the soundhole and others have several small pickups on wires placed at different points inside the body. None require any real cutting If you have an acoustic you're happy with you might look into something like that. I can't afford a Taylor and ended up going with an Epiphone A/E that I'm pretty happy with, but I don't play acoustic that much these days.

 

[Danno]

I've never looked into this but I'd think the electronics in the shoulder, and the hole you're worried about, are for the pre-amp and you could just have the pickup installed, output through the strap button and use an external pre-amp.

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

big bulging back

I agree with that 100%---there is also the fact they want to slide off my knee I have heard that they make a stick on rough like sand paper strip you can put on them and stop it. I also like Ovation necks---they are the best playing neck to me of any acoustic (except maybe a Raintree). I can pick one of them up for around $3 to 400. A good add to there sound is a chorse pedal with just a hint of effect. Sounds awesome. Another thing I have ran into with a few older Ovations is--the way the strings go through the bridge and lifted the top at the bridge--no way to fix it..

across the soundhole

I got that now---but it sticks up a little to high and being a finger picker I dig under the strings instead of strumming down with a pick---they don't leave you much space. I recorded a song one day and kept wondering what that light "CLACK" like sound was coming from- that is what it ended up being--my fingernail hitting the pickup. Strange but true.
There is a Martin DCX1e on Craigslist for $400---(this one is made in the U.S.A.) almost all of them are made in Mexico-(actually this is the only one I ever seen made in the U.S.A.---thinking about giving it a try. Don't stop with the ideas guys all information is welcomed. Thanks Later.
.

 

[Al Holloway]

As a different thought. If this is for recording and not performing. I have heard from many reputable sources that the best acoustic tone will come from micing the guitar. A good mic will be much cheaper than a bad guitar and you can still use your current Martin.

cheers

Al.

 

[sloslunas]

Dave I bought this Takamine at Music go Round a few years back. Paid $200 for it in mint condition (I think they made a huge pricing mistake on this one!!). For me, it is the perfect acoustic. It plays and sounds great! Had a Martin but it was way too temperamental in our climate so I gave that one away. Happy hunting amigo...
Steve

 

[JestMe]

As far as putting in a pickup on your Martin... I would go for a K&K Pure Mini, I have one in my Collings. They run about 100 bucks. There are 3 small disks that are mounted on the underside of your guitar under the bridge. The end pin is replaced with a end pin / jack combo. In it's simplist set up there are no volume or tone controls on the guitar... your amp would countrol the volume and tone. Sounds great, easy install, inexpensive, no batteries, other than the end pin jack, no modiifications to your guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NVlrbY1xxU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbtKqHrME0s

Good luck and please keep us posted.

 

[CapnDenny1]

I second the idea of using a mic. You must like the sound of the acoustic. Using a mic gets you that same sound.

You may have to experiment with mic placement, but it doesn't get better than that for an acoustic.

I don't think the standard guitar amp mics are the correct one to use. They are designed for high volume without distortion. I don't think a vocal mic is right either, because the voice is more limited than a guitar, especially an acoustic.

Even if you are performing that will work. You just have to be careful of speaker and mic placement. I've seen that done too.

 

[CaptainMoto]

That K&K that @JestMe recommended looks pretty cool.

Personally, I think I's spend a little time exploring mics before I messed around with a nice Martin.
You previously said you where hunting for a mic ( I assumed for vocals).
Iv'e found micing an acoustic takes a little patience and experimentation but, will deliver great tone when you get it right.

If you want to sing and play at the same time, that could mean two mics or, explore mic placement for that situation.

If you where to try that with a single mic, I would suggest a condenser instead of the SM58.
Dynamic mics like the SM58 / SM57 are great all around mics but I think a condenser would be the better choice for an acoustic.
I bet @Cowboy Bob would have an opinion and recommendation.

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

If this is for recording and not performing

I very seldom play out--but if I do I want to be prepared----Long time ago I use to have a clip to center a mic from my mic stand in front of the guitar and another mic for the vocals---and I agree with you it is my preferred way to get the acoustic sound right---only hold back with that was having to maintain the proper distance from the mic to get the maximum out of it....and then there was the occasional bumping...very distracting and hard on the guitar---dings all over the top. Lots a dings after about 3 beers.

 

[Elwood]

Hey BCB, please don't be consigned to acoustic. That is the real deal bro. Those other things are just guitars with a bunch of wires and stuff, some of 'em (like certain teles) don't even have room for any air.

Your Martin, now I can't imagine why you just don't put on some Black Sabboth real loud, get out the sawzall and the big guy drill, and give 'er hell.

My Martin (a MMV dread, spruce top, RW side and back), I was brave enough to install bone pins and saddle, and I had a bone nut put in. It has no electrics and it will most likely stay that way. I am fairly handy but I can't do anything irreversible to it. So, with regard to you original question I have nothing of value to add. however....(here it comes right)

I love playing acoustic. A few years ago I played my first Taylor, a 314ce on clearance. I hate playing in guitar stores. I didn't have a VISA card with me. I literally did not release my grip on that guitar until my wife came there and payed for it. I'm just telling you this because there are a ton of real nice Taylors out there. You can pay pretty much what you want if you are patient. They sound PDG (pretty damn good) just plugged right in. I'm a bit younger than you in years but I'm not out building a runway out of timbers in the snow either. Even so, your strong hands might enjoy the amazing playability of a nice Taylor. My mini koa or the 314ce are like reading glasses, or slippers. I leave 'em around just because. Anyway, for the bucks you mention, you too can have beautiful Martin wall art, and get your self a daily player that plugs in good enough and feels real good.
Here is a link to the shop that I just got my tele from. Awesome deal I got!!!

One last thing, my preference changes with my body it seems. Dreads are just too big for all the time play. In Taylor I would look at their GC or GA sizes. both have more narrow waist and snuggle in better.

I'm sure mics are the best, I can't control my environment well enough to prevent recording every gastric event in the county along with the strings, mics are an "also" thing for my unless I really want to record the Martin.

https://davesguitar.com/products/taylor/type/acoustic-guitar/condition/used/

All the best. If you want more info or opinion hit me on the side, no problem. I'll send you some clean sound from both if you want. I don't want to bore everyone here any more than I have.

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

Steve I have played that guitar---I told you then YOU SCORED--you don't find like that every day. Some guitars just got that little something that another one just like it AIN'T GOT---you lucked up buddy. If I remember right I offered to buy it from you---for $250--(I am a thief)

JM: I checked them out---(I have checked about everything out there) but still undecided---One thing I considered when looking at them is---They attach to your sound board--that is where the sound of your guitar comes from---anything attached to it I think might alter the true sound of the guitar, I do not know that for a fact but ---very possible---then the thought of one coming off and dangling in my guitar is not comforting--probably would never happen to any body else BUT ME I have not ruled them out but I also would prefer a little EQ and volume controls.

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

Capn: I was busy typing the post about the 2 mic thing when you post yours---I did use the SM 58 & 57--it sounded good and I had a lot of people complement the set up---but by now you have probably read that post

nice Taylors out there

My son has the exact same model Taylor you have--he played my Martin and he said he was going home and trade his Taylor in on a Martin---My friend who has the recording studio has a higher end Taylor. He played my Martin, and ask me if he could use it to record a couple recordings. I let him, when I went to pick it up a week later it was the only acoustic guitar in his recording room--I ask him how he liked it? He ask me how much it cost? I told him-he went shopping the next day..--I ain't saying nothing bad about Taylors-coz I ain't never played one -but I see them all the time on Craigslist here---I see maybe 3-4 sometimes no Martins for 6 - 8 months---That tells me something:---- Strong hands: man I weigh 130 pounds soaking wet and my hands are so weak I can't even hold a guitar pick (I have to get my wife to screw off the beer bottle cap)---If I stand up and play an electric, my left shoulder will be out of place for 3 weeks---and my neck for a week---(Hence "CONFINED" TO ACOUSTIC>>>is more appropriate..Later Buddy--

 

[sloslunas]

Steve I have played that guitar---I told you then YOU SCORED--you don't find like that every day. Some guitars just got that little something that another one just like it AIN'T GOT---you lucked up buddy. If I remember right I offered to buy it from you---for $250--(I am a thief)
Yes Dave...after I posted that, I remembered that you have played that guitar on one or two of your visits to the Compound. And played it quite well as I remember!. As you know it has a volume, bass, treble, and an EQ on board. The great thing about it is its size and play-ability. I just picked this guitar up and played it after at least a year and a half of not playing it (What can I say...I am a total Strat whore!). The guitar was still in perfect tune!! It was hecho in Japan 20 years ago, and every detail was attended to.
I digress, but will give my take on buying new acoustic guitars. During my searches in the early years, I would go to all of these music shops and play everything regardless of the price or the flavor. I never once played or heard anything remotely close to what I was wanting to hear. My takeaway was that acoustic guitars, unlike solid body guitars DO NOT sound that good when new. I want to buy something that has aged and mellowed through the years. Hence, have someone break this in until it finally sounds good to my ears. Of course, you know this already...

Steve

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

I got to agree some what with you---the more there played the better they sound ---the wood opens up-

Now I need to correct that one guitar name---It is Rain Song-not- Rain Tree---and boy was I off on them prices--by about a grand---$2300-2500 for the models I would be interested in--so much for that. Leaning toward the Ovation right now.

 

[snarf]

My vote would be to not by another guitar unless that's what you really want. I'm also facing a similar question. I've got a 20 year old D-15 that I've been trying to decide what to do with. I bought it off a buddy about 10 years ago. He didn't care about electronics when he bought it because he was just learning. It sounds super good, is Mrs Snarf's fave sounding guitar (and the only one she recognizes the sound of without seeing it), and I'd like to put something in it so that I have it as an option when playing at church or wherever. My D-35 is from the 80s and has one of the first gen Martin Thinline pups in it. It sounds just like you would expect a piezo to sound...just like every piezo in the world sounds.

I'm actually leaning towards one of those LR Baggs Lyric systems for the D-15. Check out this link for it on Sweetwater. I was actually really surprised to see the first demo that they have for it is my #1 fave player of all time, Phil Keaggy. In the vid, he's playing a Martin, and it sounds great. The Lyric system is a mic that sits under the saddle inside the guitar. To my ear, it doesn't sound as good as a really good mic sitting in front of the guitar, but it sounds as good as any of the mics I've got in my locker (and most of the ones that I've been given to use when I've played out with it). And the best thing is that it actually sounds like a mic-ed guitar and not a piezo.

YMMV, but that's what I'm more than likely going to go with.

 

[blackcoffeeblues]

Sounds pretty good---but what is that pedal he hit? I noticed it had LR BAGGS on it,. and I got a FUNNY FEELING that is a ADD$$$ on must have. Another $50-75---or more. now it is getting up there closer to $300..That makes the difference. I would have to do a little closer look into it.....I also noticed it uses a 9v battery---wonder where it goes? I'm really leaning toward the Ovation mid size bowl--.I already have a D size
something a little thinner wouldn't hurt my feelings, Plus I can throw it in the truck and take it with me-I don't like doing that with the Martin. I have also noticed when I am recording something my Martin carries way TO MUCH BASS..I can get a nice Ovation for less than $600- I guess what I am trying to say is Yes I am just going to get another guitar. But it still wouldn't hurt to have some thing like that on the Martin if that is all it cost I would consider it. Thanks

 

[snarf]

The pedal would definitely be nice to have but is certainly not a necessity. It's the LR Baggs DI/Preamp, and runs like $300 I believe. It's just going to help you further shape the sound of the guitar. You mention the Martin has too much bass, that pedal could help you pull that down. That's also a problem that D-size acoustics often have when recording. If you want an acoustic that isn't so boomy, by and large, you're, generally, going to need to get a smaller body than a dread. Sometimes you can place the mic differently and the base won't be so prominent or get a good preamp (or some other tone shaper) and use it to tame the bass a bit. For my D-15, at the moment, I'm only considering the pickup and not the DI pedal.

Good luck on the search for an Ovation! I've played 5 or 6 of them over the years (one of them I had to play for a semi-regular gig for a few months back in the 90s), and never liked any of them. But I always knew somebody was buying them since they've been around longer than I have. They also have a good reputation as having been pioneers in putting electronics into acoustics.

 

[Elwood]

Yeah see, I wasn't going to say it but I had a nice old ovation, a balladeer of some kind I believe. That is the only guitar I can think of I don't miss. It was tough though. Took me a while to realize I didn't really like how it felt being behind it or how it sounded out front. I went from that to the Martin though so .