Amps Tone Master amps: Deluxe or Twin?

MarkDyson

Blues Hound Wannabe
Chevy just announced that the 2021 Corvette will be an all electric car. It will have 4 speakers and a 2000W SS amp to simulate the sound of a 427cid V8.

As I recall, all-electric motorcycles are supposed to play a recording of engine noise so people can hear them coming. :sneaky:
 

Crossroads

Thump the Bottom
Yeah the whole fake sound thing is definitely chezzzy, but if you have ever driven a high performance hybrid, there is nothing that will get you off the line like an electric motor. Instant head snapping into the seat back torque.

No supercharger or twin turbo can do that.

Anyway back to Mark's original post these guys did a decent review of the originals vs the Tone Masters.

 

MarkDyson

Blues Hound Wannabe
Yeah, that was one of the videos I watched. I used headphones but, still, I know YouTube clobbers the true sound fidelity.

On the topic of taste tests and A/B comparisons, someone in a comments thread made what seems to me to be a solid point: if the modeled versions sound good enough you need to do an A/B to distinguish them, then the models are pretty damned good on their own merits.
 

OG_Blues

Guitar Geezer
if the modeled versions sound good enough you need to do an A/B to distinguish them, then the models are pretty damned good on their own merits.
ya - and then put it in the mix of a live band situation to boot, with an audience that doesn't even know (or care) what day it is, much less what gear you are using, and.......it all becomes academic real fast.
The reality is that we buy these toys for our own enjoyment, not for someone else's benefit.
It's still fun to talk about and experience different things though.
 

MarkDyson

Blues Hound Wannabe
ya - and then put it in the mix of a live band situation to boot, with an audience that doesn't even know (or care) what day it is, much less what gear you are using, and.......it all becomes academic real fast.
The reality is that we buy these toys for our own enjoyment, not for someone else's benefit.

(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

It's still fun to talk about and experience different things though.

Oh, yeah! Half the fun of chasing rabbits down holes is the gleeful barking. :Beer:
 

Crossroads

Thump the Bottom
(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)



Oh, yeah! Half the fun of chasing rabbits down holes is the gleeful barking. :Beer:
I can say without hesitation, I have learned more getting in and out of rabbit holes, than I ever could have hoped to by avoiding them.

Those skills are then transferable to other areas.

Necessity is the mother of all f-ers, or somethin to do with inventing stuff,
 

D. R. Miller

Good News Blues
Loving the reviews and demos of the new Fender Tone Master amps; it seems to my level of hearing ability they've nailed the "tube tone" more than well enough, and without the fragility and heft of the original model amps.

I'm pondering a sibling for my Nace, one that I'd be less nervous about something happening to, and these amps are strong contenders. My question is, for the extra hundred bucks why not skip over the Deluxe and go right for the Twin? Are there compelling arguments against that? I know that in this pack of enablers I'm just as likely to be advised, "get both," but wanted to open the floor for related discussion.

Thoughts?

No they haven't it's just the same old digital modeling try, it still misses the complete package but that's my opinion and why the one I received to try out from Sweetwater is going back. Everybody's ears are different but to me it still had that too clean, too pristine sound to it and missing the subtle warmth of real tubes. Some may love it and live with it as close enough for the weight advantage, me I think their are modeling alternatives that nail it just as good for half the price if you want that option. A single modeled amp that is only $200 cheaper than the real thing is a too much, again IMHO.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Bob

Horse Player/Guitar Wrangler
I've not tried one....YET... but I fully intend to. I own an original 1969 Twin Reverb, as well as an original 1968 BandMaster, and have owned a 1968 Deluxe Reverb. I think it was @paparaptor that said put some wheels and a trailer tongue on these dadgum things to move them, and he ain't half wrong. I never cared when I was 17, but now at sixty-whatever, I do. :)

I NEVER take them along on the few occasions that I play out anymore. 11 Rack does a good job for that, and so does my Mustang GT 200. I have an 11 Rack that lives in the studio full time too. The XLR out of the GT 200 is also very usable and the amp is easily mic'd. PERSONALLY I prefer the DI approach of the Mustang and 11 Rack in my studio, but I do have isolation boxes that I build so I could crank the TR or BM and get the breakup that I or a client would want.

From the videos alone, the tones are extremely usable and the weight makes them extremely portable. These two amps were engineered to sound like their valve cousins, and nothing more, which could be a love hate thing. I love that there are no menus, no apps, etc. to get your tone. Just like back in the day, you got your tone from the FEW pedals that you had, the amp, your guitar and your hands.

Twist a knob, flip a switch, and adjust to taste and you get a Twin or a Deluxe sound, depending upon which amp you are using of course. No you don't get the choice of a Vox, or a Marshall, or whatever else, but that isn't what these amps job is.

Again, PERSONALLY, I am going to be looking long and hard at the Twin Reverb Tone Master. I've always like the versatility of the original Twin Reverb, but it could be overpowering at times. (I remember a few times I was asked to point the amp backwards or to put it under the stage and they would mic it just to help control the SPL to the house, and maintain tone. OD pedals did help, but still.....;)

I'd half consider shedding myself of those heavy tube amps, but they have a sentimental value to me, even if I were to never play through them again.

Just my $.02. Opinions expressed are not necessarily those of this station or its sponsors, your mileage may vary, not valid in all states, do not use when operating heavy equipment, ask your wife before buying, etc,
 

Mark from Murrieta

Blues Junior
I bought the Deluxe. Brought it to the Club House Jam on Sat. Got very good reviews from the guys there. To my ears, and many others, these digital amps are an exact reproduction of the tube amps. They get dirty and clean up with the guitar volume just like the tube amps. Amazing and super light.
 

Iheartbacon

Blues Junior
My understanding is this:

-There is no difference in volume between a Tube and a Solid State amp of the same wattage.

-The perceived volume on a Tube amp is louder because it breaks up, fooling your ears.
This is the same thing that happens when you kick in an O/D pedal...........you perceive it to be louder.

Not quite. There is no difference between a tube amp DELIVERING. x watts to the speaker and a SS amp delivering the same x watts. What is usually quite different is how many usable watts two amps with the same RATING can deliver.

The solid state amp will generally sound horrible when clipping, so it needs to run at an average level where the largest peaks will still not clip at all.

The tube amp generally sounds good while clipping and even if after a clean tone, you can push it to the point where the pick attacks clip or squish but the tone is mostly clean.

This is why you would want a 200 watt SS amp to simulate an 85 watt tube amp. Most of the time it will be putting out 85 watts or less, but the rest of the time really matters.
 

Iheartbacon

Blues Junior
I'm on 17 acres and Vikki encourages me to crank my amps, at 5 with a Strat mine gets that Jimi clean tone, my ears won't take it much above that

Foam ear plugs in ears = -30 dB
Ear muffs on top = -29 dB
Cranking your twin reverb without hearing damage and not hearing any complaints? = Priceless

Seriously, when working on one of these, you need to test it to it’s limits, and you will really want ear protection when you do!
 

Iheartbacon

Blues Junior
Interesting; share some examples?

IMHO, the best pure amp modeling deal right now is the Atomic Amplifire line. They don’t have all the effects, flexibility and slick interface of the top dogs but the amp tones hang with the big $$$ Axe and Kemper and handily best the Helix. I have not done a side by side yet but I would expect with the right output section it will hand with or beat the Fender.

BUT these are not combo amps so you still need to add a powered speaker/cab. Include that, and you are closer or in the same ballpark as far as pricing, but beside a Twin Reverb AND a Deluxe, you get a Tweed Bassman, a Marshall Plexi, a JCM 800, Soldano SLO, a couple Friedman’s, Vox, Boogie, 5150 etc. and at least some usable effects.

Even if you use just 2 or 3 amp tones, the full modeler is a better value.
 

MarkDyson

Blues Hound Wannabe
BUT these are not combo amps so you still need to add a powered speaker/cab. Include that, and you are closer or in the same ballpark as far as pricing...

And if I already have a Bose Compact L1, and a couple of Headrush FRFR powered cabs, then the added expense wouldn't be a factor.

My current modeling assets are the Positive Grid Bias Mini, and the Headrush Gigboard. You say the Amplifire's modeling tops them.

Curiouser and curiouser. Thanks for the insights! :Beer:
 

PapaBear

Guit Fiddlier
Foam ear plugs in ears = -30 dB
Ear muffs on top = -29 dB
Cranking your twin reverb without hearing damage and not hearing any complaints? = Priceless

Seriously, when working on one of these, you need to test it to it’s limits, and you will really want ear protection when you do!
Yeah I did that once with the Marshall Blues Breaker, but had a long cord and went in the other room
 

Mark from Murrieta

Blues Junior
IMHO, the best pure amp modeling deal right now is the Atomic Amplifire line. They don’t have all the effects, flexibility and slick interface of the top dogs but the amp tones hang with the big $$$ Axe and Kemper and handily best the Helix. I have not done a side by side yet but I would expect with the right output section it will hand with or beat the Fender.

BUT these are not combo amps so you still need to add a powered speaker/cab. Include that, and you are closer or in the same ballpark as far as pricing, but beside a Twin Reverb AND a Deluxe, you get a Tweed Bassman, a Marshall Plexi, a JCM 800, Soldano SLO, a couple Friedman’s, Vox, Boogie, 5150 etc. and at least some usable effects.

Even if you use just 2 or 3 amp tones, the full modeler is a better value.

These are good. For my needs and enjoyment, I don't want to bring anything but a (light) combo to a jam, and I wanna deal with a more old school amp; limited knobs and options. Then again, my Dad said I was a little slow...
 

CaptainMoto

Blues Voyager
Not quite. There is no difference between a tube amp DELIVERING. x watts to the speaker and a SS amp delivering the same x watts. What is usually quite different is how many usable watts two amps with the same RATING can deliver.

The solid state amp will generally sound horrible when clipping, so it needs to run at an average level where the largest peaks will still not clip at all.

The tube amp generally sounds good while clipping and even if after a clean tone, you can push it to the point where the pick attacks clip or squish but the tone is mostly clean.

This is why you would want a 200 watt SS amp to simulate an 85 watt tube amp. Most of the time it will be putting out 85 watts or less, but the rest of the time really matters.
Makes sense to me.
 

Al Holloway

Devizes UK
That argument is not relevant with a digital modeler that, if it is doing its job, is sending the same harmonic content, compression, distortion etc as the tube amp it is copying.
But that will depend on the amp and speaker (or FRFR) you use. With a few limited exceptions modellers don't have amps. And if they do the same arguement still exists.

And before you say I am a tube snob. A very happy Atomic Amplifire user here.

cheers

Al.
 
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