Nace Pro 18 Combo Volume

D. R. Miller

D. R. Miller

Good News Blues
I have been using my Nace Pro 18 for over a year now and generally have loved it but I am finding I am having trouble dialing in a nice clean tone at decent volume without having to crank the Master volume to around 3 o'clock which then creates noise. It also does not seem to be that loud compared to my Fender Blues Jr. or Monoprice 15W.

Other Nace owners had any similar issues or suggestions? I'm tired of muddy rhythms when I'm wanting a clean tone but sufficient volume. (which is never very loud anyway due to the places we play).

On a side note I am finding that to get the tone I desire (to my ears) requires sufficient volume output from the amp but that is the problem I'm always having you be careful and considerate with the amp volume unlike our favorite players who run full out on stage. Also, if the guitars are loud then everything else needs to be loud as well or nobody else can hear themselves. It's a never ending stage battle when using floor monitors.
 
Crossroads

Crossroads

Thump the Bottom
Not sure about your noise at 3. Oclock But at 3 oclock on the master you going to be driving those el84s.

12 ax 7s into el84s into a celestion Greenback that wattage, really isn't a design that lends itself to a lot of clean headroom.

Maybe others have found a way around it, but the only way I see to do it is to either mic it or use some type of power amp. You could also try running a clean boost in front of it but anytime you crank that master volume you going to break up.

If it were me looking for clean headroom I'd probably be looking elsewhere. Good luck.
 
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MarkDyson

MarkDyson

Blues Hound Wannabe
How's your EQ set up? I got this advice from @Griff a while back:

...as a side note with the EQ thing, the way the Nace is made it does have a mid control, it's just labeled "Gain" instead.

Art and I went round and round about that because I too, was adamant that I had to have midrange control. What I didn't know then, and now understand and have proven to myself, is that on many older Fender (and probably other) designs, the gain is basically the mid, and if you want more mids, turn up the gain (which raises all frequencies) and lower the lows and highs.

I've found myself, particularly with guitars that have humbuckers, turning the bass knob all the way off as the gain gets higher. If you want to dime the amp and let it rip, don't be afraid to pull all of the bass out to keep the low end tighter. You'd think it will get thin, but it won't.

Just make sure you EQ with your ears and not your eyes, and keep that Gain knob in mind as an EQ as well.

That same technique may work for pedals well, but they have a variety of topologies, so I doubt it's something you can count on across the board. Certainly a pedal with a single tone control isn't going to give you midrange control, even with a gain control.
Click to expand...
 
mountain man

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
@MarkDyson, thanks for including that discussion from Griff. I must have missed it before.

I have both my Pro-18 gain set at 1.5. The head driving 2 Carvin Vintage cabs is set to higher bass than the combo. I don't have any problem with the clean tone from the Nace, but then I'm not a looking for that Fender clean tone anyway....... :Beer:
 
Crossroads

Crossroads

Thump the Bottom
Interesting discussion. You can only get so much clean headroom out of any given amp. But what Griff describes above dialing mid EQs while it won't make you louder,gives you the ability to cut through the mix better and reduce the low frequencies generating the mud. .I never tried cutting the bass to zero that's an interesting idea.

Other ways of reducing or eliminating mud, look at the pickups on the guitar If you haven't already you might also consider playing on the treble pickup with the tone turned all the way up.

As Moto said I've never had a problem with noise even with the amp dimed. Maybe be a tube, pot or transient problem.
 
mountain man

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
Good points. What is noise here? OD Distortion? I always associate noise as that which comes from single coil pups and a dirty power supply and /or having a high voltage transformer to close to your rig. I've got no noise. But I can get OD distortion if I want it. I generally drive my amps to get some OD and then let a subtle adjustment with pedals get me where I want to go. For instance, the Way Huge Overrated Special (a Joe Bonamassa pedal) needs some amp OD distortion to work properly. That's what I'm talking about. :Beer:
 
straightblues

straightblues

Blues Junior
Turn your master to full-on, and your gain down. Then turn your guitar's volume down as well.

What is the noise you are hearing? Maybe you have a bad preamp tube.

I don't own a Nace but I have heard them at the OC BGU jams several times. They are loud bright amps. If you are playing louder than a Nace, I would say you guys are playing too loud.
 
MikeS

MikeS

Student Of The Blues
Staff member
Dennis(Slughand)Miller said:
I have been using my Nace Pro 18 for over a year now and generally have loved it but I am finding I am having trouble dialing in a nice clean tone at decent volume without having to crank the Master volume to around 3 o'clock which then creates noise. It also does not seem to be that loud compared to my Fender Blues Jr. or Monoprice 15W.

Other Nace owners had any similar issues or suggestions? I'm tired of muddy rhythms when I'm wanting a clean tone but sufficient volume. (which is never very loud anyway due to the places we play).

On a side note I am finding that to get the tone I desire (to my ears) requires sufficient volume output from the amp but that is the problem I'm always having you be careful and considerate with the amp volume unlike our favorite players who run full out on stage. Also, if the guitars are loud then everything else needs to be loud as well or nobody else can hear themselves. It's a never ending stage battle when using floor monitors.
Click to expand...

I've got my NACE Pro18 set with the Master at 3 and the gain at 9. I'm playing my Les Paul copy and if I have the volume dial pegged, I get a nice bit of distortion but If I back it off to 8-9, I get a very tiny bit of distortion.
 
MarkDyson

MarkDyson

Blues Hound Wannabe
MikeS said:
I've got my NACE Pro18 set with the Master at 3 and the gain at 9. I'm playing my Les Paul copy and if I have the volume dial pegged, I get a nice bit of distortion but If I back it off to 8-9, I get a very tiny bit of distortion.
Click to expand...

Do you mean 30% and 90% of fully clockwise?
 
Iheartbacon

Iheartbacon

Blues Junior
Dennis(Slughand)Miller said:
I would have never considered that, I’ve always thought of the gain control as being used to increase drive on the preamp tubes. I will give that a try. Thanks!!
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That is correct and probably why Nace labeled it that way. The classic TMB tone stack that Fender used and many others copied is far from an ideal EQ. The controls are interactive and not fully intuitive. The mid control behaves somewhat like a volume control.
 
Iheartbacon

Iheartbacon

Blues Junior
Dennis(Slughand)Miller said:
I am having trouble dialing in a nice clean tone at decent volume without having to crank the Master volume to around 3 o'clock which then creates noise. It also does not seem to be that loud compared to my Fender Blues Jr. or Monoprice 15W.
Click to expand...

I don’t have a Nace, but assuming it is at all Fender like, the best clean tones will be with the master all the way up and the pre-amp volume turned down just enough so the power tubes are not driven to distortion. On the BF series that is usually volume around 6 (google the magic six settings) but use your ear. You may want to set it up with the guitar volume around 7. Then you can turn up the guitar to get a little more volume and grit, or turn down a little to lower the volume without too much tone change.

Noise with the MV turned up and low output level sounds like a problem, likely a bad tube or a bias issue. Are these amps cathode biased, manually biased or auto biased?

Power tubes are more likely to fail than pre-amp tubes, but if you have some known good tubes you can borrow, try them all. Or find someone with a tube tester. If tubes don’t fix it, it is probably time to find a competent amp tech to check it out.
 
Griff

Griff

Vice Assistant General Manager
Staff member
I should mention, as well, that you can always reach out to Art and he'll help you out. He's a super nice guy and, while he's not actively building and selling the amps anymore, has told me on more than one occasion that he's happy to help troubleshoot if there is an issue.
 
CapnDenny1

CapnDenny1

Student Of The Blues
The gain is either in or ahead of the preamp.

The master is just ahead of the power tubes, and usually ahead of the phase splitter.

In general that’s true, but I’ve seen a bunch of different ways.

In an amp with just one channel and a gain and master knob, you can’t really do loud and clean. If you turn the master up to maximum and turn the gain to where it’s still clean, it’s as loud as it will get. If you increase the signal going to the preamp it will distort.

The old Fender had the opposite problem. You can’t do quiet with distortion. The preamps had tons of headroom, and so does their power amps. To get distortion youhad to drive the amp at extremely high volume. Whichback in day is exactly what was done.
 
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