Any suggestions on counting?

[DavidHowell]

I am having real trouble counting out loud while playing. I am capable of either counting in time(ish) or playing but apparently not both at the same time.

I can count out loud and play if I only say the beats on which I hit the strings .e.g 1 - 2 & - & 4 - for the most popular strum. However, as soon as I start counting the full 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & I end up hitting strings on beats when I shouldn't which throws the whole thing off into either a jumble or just a constant set of eighth notes.

I did ok on BBG but I must admit to not counting out loud much. I knew this was a weak spot so bought SRM but didn't fully appreciate how weak it was

 

[PapaBear]

Try to internalize the count in your head and then start to count slowly with out a backing track as you play, when you can speed it up then try to the track

 

[Silicon Valley Tom]

There are a number of techniques that you can use.

First, listen to the piece that you are learning. Listen a lot! Learn how to recognize where phrases belong - you have 3 4 bar phrases to a 12 bar blues. Follow the music notation while you listen.

1. Use a metronome. Set it for slower than the "full speed" of the piece that you are playing.

2. Play against the piece you are learning - and play it at a slower speed while you "come up to speed". Just listen, play, and read the notation. After a while you will not need to look at the notation.

Tom

 

[TwiddleJockey]

Unfortunately, counting is like any other guitar skill - it takes more practice than our levels of patience and perseverance probably allows for.

The good new is once you’re used to doing it, it’s so much faster and easier to learn a new song.

I agree with Tom that you need to listen to the song over and over - as much at slow speed as full speed. I loop that part of a lesson and let it play dozens of times both before I start and when I take a break - sometimes just putting the ax down, lying on the sofa and shutting my eyes, and counting to it after the first few loops. It internalises what it’s supposed to sound like.

I’ve also found that taking the time to work on just two or even one bar at a time helps, and what really helps also is to print off the tab and pencil the count under the notes - 1& a 2 & a - etc, I have that on a stand in front of me full of pencil scribbles, as well as the lesson video playing. It seems easier to read it than do it from your head. Works just as well getting chord strum patterns right.

Tap your foot on each beat too. I never find a gradual consistent improvement happens. It’s just really shit for a long while and then suddenly sounds right!

Hope all that helps. I struggled to get it for along time but so happy I made effort. The looping feature of the new customer hub has made it so much easier now.

There’s no short cut. And without frustration you’ll never get elation.

 

[DavidHowell]

I think you guys are giving me too much credit. While I can internalise a song and play it without counting or while counting in my head (both of which probably mean my timing is off) but as soon as I count out loud it crashes. It seems like the act of verbalising the count triggers the act of strumming so I keep hitting strings when I should be missing them.

Given that subterranean starting level, I am really just working on holding a single chord and one strum pattern - usually the most popular strum.

I take hear from "It’s just really shit for a long while and then suddenly sounds right!". I have really mastered the first part of that statement and will keep at it while waiting for the second part

 

[Paleo]

While I can internalise a song and play it without counting or while counting in my head (both of which probably mean my timing is off) but as soon as I count out loud it crashes.

Counting out loud isn't the goal.

Being able to keep time is.

Counting out load is a means to that end for some people.

If you can keep time without it, there is no need to force yourself to count out loud.

But you have to be honest with yourself.

If you do have trouble keeping time, counting out loud can help.

If you can keep time without counting out loud there is no purpose in forcing yourself to do it.

 

[DavidHowell]

I would like to think I am keeping time but having recored it...... I better keep trying to count.

Just made it through 4 bars of full counting without hitting any extra strums which is about 2 more than I was doing last week. Just need an extra 8 bars, then more speed, them better chord changes, then....

 

[Paleo]

1 - 2 & - & 4 - for the most popular strum.

I feel your pain. Here's proof.

First I just looked at how you wrote out the strum and just played it.

Trying to count it? Maybe I came close once but couldn't do it twice in a row.

https://dl.dropbox.com/s/cq3n31p4vae6z44/Strum.mp4?dl=0

 

[DavidHowell]

Exactly! I'm glad I am not the only one!!

On the other hand, Griff's email today could have been personally addressed to me so I am still counting. It has gotten a little bit better

 

[mountain man]

Tom is always a member to pay attention too. Beyond that, this is what I do:

1) just count out loud for a minute. 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 1 &..........

2) then count out loud and tap your foot in time with your counting. for as long as it takes. foot down on the number, toe up on the "&".

3) now count out loud while tapping your foot in time, now move you hand like you are strumming. Do this in time. All you are trying to do is synchronize your speech, foot, and hand. Do this for as long as it takes and then longer than that.

4) now pick up your guitar.

5) Repeat all of the above and especially #3 until you feel comfortable. Now do this some more. Do not hit the strings yet.

6) Repeat above only play a simple chord like an E minor. Only play the downbeats and use the "&" to bring you hand back up into position for the down beat on the number. Do this all over again and play A minor. Do this again and play G. Continue until you can play all the open chords off of the nut. You should finally contact the strings in this step.

7) When you are ready try to go from one chord to another off the nut as shown in your favorite piece of music. (any will due) link the chords in time with your counting and foot tapping. DO NOT PAUSE WHEN CHANGING CHORDS. You will make mistakes and that's OK, eventually your will be able to move around in time. Take as long as necessary.

8) Continue until you've got it.

good luck!

 

[PCM]

I am having real trouble counting out loud while playing. I am capable of either counting in time(ish) or playing but apparently not both at the same time.

I can count out loud and play if I only say the beats on which I hit the strings .e.g 1 - 2 & - & 4 - for the most popular strum. However, as soon as I start counting the full 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & I end up hitting strings on beats when I shouldn't which throws the whole thing off into either a jumble or just a constant set of eighth notes.

I did ok on BBG but I must admit to not counting out loud much. I knew this was a weak spot so bought SRM but didn't fully appreciate how weak it was

I completely empathize with you!

I eventually got it, but not without a long, slow, continuing exercise in repetition. I would use the term "struggle" except the guitar is not a "struggle." It has quite the opposite and has a very soothing effect. However, there are aspects of learning the guitar and styles that are more difficult than others.

In my particular case, I eventually realized I was going to have to practice a little harder than most since I was lacking even a modicum of "music/guitar DNA" and was not in the music business. It's kind of an inverse relationship...lots of DNA...things happen quicker...minimal DNA...more practice required.

Don't give up. You'll eventually get it. Counting and playing at the same time is a challenging exercise, unless you were born and weaned on it in your early instruction/learning years. All of the BGU courses emphasize it.

Tons of "brain multi-tasking" going on...wait until you try fingerstyle and singing at the same time...the most underrated skill on all the earth.

Keep at it.

Pete in Texas

 

[jmin]

That counting stuff is tough! One way I "cheat" (don't tell Griff) is that I try to internalize the "count" by using "dah-dah's." (Griff does say he doesn't care what you call them as long as you're keeping time...or something like that). I recall a lot of song learning with a band where someone would say, "it's not dah-dah-dah, it's dah dah-dah!" I find myself using that sometimes if the counting is tough, but the rhythm really isn't, and it's repetitive. In your example, I think it would be "dah dah-dah, dah-dah!" Good luck!

 

[sdbrit68]

Okay, this is going to sound completely stupid............but it has been working for me.

when I count the numbers I do a little deeper voice, 1-2-3-4

when I do the &'s I tip my head back about an inch so its moving and use a slightly higher pitch...............looks and seems funny as all get out, but it worked for me

 

[DavidHowell]

jmin, I have been doing the dah-dah thing (or other random noises) also and it does come more naturally. Sometimes, I loose my place in the bar but that seems more manageable.

Overall, it is improving but sloooowly.

 

[Peter Wynne]

These are all great suggestions. I write the count down on the printed page and usually practice 2-4 bars at a time (over and over) until i can get the count on the string striking. Im still hitting the wrong string (right hand) or missing the chord (left hand) but i trudge through it until i can play through cleanly while counting and tapping. For someone starting out late in life this can get tedious but I'm still having fun....

 

[SmokeyMcElroy]

This is a relatively older thread but it's a problem that I have (one of them). There is a lot of good advice here, but I need more! I am living proof that not all people are born with rhythm in their souls. I can hear the music within but don't have a "natural rhythm",or "beat", or "feel" to be able to express it. I can practice with the metronome and follow along pretty good. But to turn the metronome off and play the song, I am terrible because I cannot "feel" or "hear" the beat. Making my playing sound shameful! Where to go? What to do? Oh my!

 

[sdbrit68]

This is a relatively older thread but it's a problem that I have (one of them). There is a lot of good advice here, but I need more! I am living proof that not all people are born with rhythm in their souls. I can hear the music within but don't have a "natural rhythm",or "beat", or "feel" to be able to express it. I can practice with the metronome and follow along pretty good. But to turn the metronome off and play the song, I am terrible because I cannot "feel" or "hear" the beat. Making my playing sound shameful! Where to go? What to do? Oh my!

Its gonna sound like non advice / advice, but the reality is, sometimes the simple solutions are exactly what is needed. My first blues jam, I got lost before the end of the first barre. I kept getting lost. My second one, I hung in on rhythm for most of the song most of the day.

You have to give in to @Griff process. Count out loud (I fought it, it works), most of his courses have a section where the counting is made obvious, count out loud with it.

When playing by yourself with no backing track, over exaggerate the out-loud counting as you strum. Then, change and strum on the 1 and 3 while counting the rest, then do the 2 and 4, then 1 and 2, then 2 and 3, then 2 and 4. There is something where it suddenly clicks to your strum hand and the counting.

If I don't know a song at a jam, I still mouth the count. Ten minutes a day, two weeks you will be surprised...…...I was, but I had to surrender to the process

 

[JPsuff]

The only suggestion I have to offer in regard to counting is that it generally works well to begin with, "One" and go from there.


(Sorry, I couldn't resist)


Carry on!

 

[Griff]

This is a relatively older thread but it's a problem that I have (one of them). There is a lot of good advice here, but I need more! I am living proof that not all people are born with rhythm in their souls. I can hear the music within but don't have a "natural rhythm",or "beat", or "feel" to be able to express it. I can practice with the metronome and follow along pretty good. But to turn the metronome off and play the song, I am terrible because I cannot "feel" or "hear" the beat. Making my playing sound shameful! Where to go? What to do? Oh my!

What course/lessons are you working on? It may be that you're trying something that's too hard, as well. If you need help with counting, going back a couple of steps generally helps a lot.

 

[Silicon Valley Tom]

The only suggestion I have to offer in regard to counting is that it generally works well to begin with, "One" and go from there.


(Sorry, I couldn't resist)


Carry on!

I think that you are correct, but would like to offer the possibility of considering binary. If that were the case (binary) we would start on 0!

Tom