New Amp Purchase

johnc

systematic
Like many members here I have been through a few amps, Tube, modeling, SS etc. For better or worse I have decided to stick with the only two I have kept after all the experimentation. Mind you I have only touched the surface of what is out there myself but have also done countless gigs with all kinds of guitar players using all kinds of gear , so I have also had a good look and listen to a big variety of options but I am going back a few years and not up to date with what is out there now.
I have had no experience with the Eleven Rack modeling gear but some of the Roland, Line 6 and Fender offerings which to me were brilliant for recording and practice, but unless you are perhaps a good tech head, I found them a bit indifferent and annoying for me personally and at a live performance where a large variety of sounds or effects were needed they tended to let me down or my lack of ability to operate them effectively let me down. The Eleven Rack may be better in that regard.

So after all I pretty much went back to basics and for playing out and or practice, I have stuck with my Fender 65 R DLX RVB with a set of JJ's tubes for both high and low volume settings. Beautiful classic clean full tube tone. This is a full tube no bells and whistles amp as in, not a hybrid tube amp that uses solid state either in the pre-amp stage or in the rectifier power supply stage. So yeah there are differing types of Tube and hybrid circuits to also be aware of. You could ask "so what?" what difference would it make to the final sound if the amp has a SS power supply. To my ears it does make a slight difference and I think that it is due to the natural compression that you can only get from a full tube circuit. So I felt that was the sound and effect that I was chasing for years. The DLX RVB also comes in a congenial size and weight package that is relatively easy to lift and cart around and responds very well to standard Boss style effects pedals and things like the TS9.

No experience with the Nace amps but looking at Griff's review on You Tube they would seem like a great choice particularly with the infinitely variable power out control, digital reverb and direct play/record out ability and I would love to test one out. Just me, but I generally prefer the seemingly warmer sound of 6V6's over EL 84's, but nothing wrong with EL 84's, they in many very nice amps including my second amp, H&K Tubemeister 5 watt.
This little amp is fabulous, a 5 watt tube head smaller than a shoe box, very light weight also with a record out facility but I have it couple with a H&K TM 112 cabinet with a Celestion vintage 30 speaker sure packs a punch for it's power. I have used it at band practice and small gigs but it is also good at home for low volume practice or recording.

No two same amps seem to sound the same...
Just something I have found over the years by being involved in different music events where the back line was supplied and I had to use whatever amp was on stage at the time. There has been at times a 65 DLX RVB there and of course because I am used to it, I have grabbed that asap over the others, but never found one to be as nice sounding or as powerful as my own and somewhat feeling disappointed so I don't know why but there can definitely be differences in the same model amp too. Could be just the JJ's I put in there, don't know.. Can't remember whether I did and bias adjustments to that amp or not as sometimes the new settings come recommended with the tubes..but some amps circuits are not easy to adjust either.

Bed Room Volumes??.
This is a very very difficult subject because it varies so much being from a personal environment/preference and can be from playing through headphones to a moderate sound level from speakers.
Like a 5 watt or even a 1 watt tube or SS amp may be way too loud even with the volume cranked all the way up to '1'.. through any efficient speaker. So it would be most probably impractical to expect great results from any amp. The sound level does not change as much as you might expect between 20 watt and 1 watt amps as the sound level is not proportional to the rated power output .

So what I would suggest is:
If you are to have just one amp, for or louder and live play/practice opportunities that you target a nice quality full tube amp around the 20 watt range, added with some good basic effects pedals and that should cover most things you would ever need.
For quiet or if necessary, silent home practice or recording sessions, consider some type of digital modeling/recording unit such as things already recommended. The amp/speaker may be just always too loud for that regardless how small.

Good luck with your decisions.
 

ChrisG

Blues Newbie
Thanks. You have all given me plenty to chew on. I should say that I'm pretty set on a Fender amp with this purchase. I just like them. The Princeton is at the upper end of my budget. Right now my local music store let me take home a Blues Jr iii and the Princeton 68 Custom Reverb. So I am testing them out. I have a tube screamer pedal that I'm running through them and that drives them both pretty good and I can keep the volume at a decent bedroom level. They both sound good and actually the Blues Junior is just as loud as the Princeton. However....the tone of the Blues Jr. does not seem to have the low end and the openness that I'm getting from the Princeton, but with no master volume on the Princeton there is no way to get tube break up without using the overdrive pedal at low practice volumes. The Low E on the BJr. sounds a little flubby. I'm wondering if all these mods people do to the blues junior is to address the things I'm hearing.

Still both amps sound light years better than what I've been using the last 5 years! Decisions, decisions....
 

mountain man

Still got the Blues!
Blues Jr's have so many mods it's amazing. Many of them can upgrade the short cuts that were taken in the Mexican built amp. I have the Blues Jr NOS with the Jensen speaker. You can get certain nickel and dime upgrades that will just add those little nuances to the amp. Then you can change out the transformer and tubes and jack the wattage up to 30 watts if you want to put in the bigger xformer and 6L6GC tubes. A more realistic mod if you really wanted to jack the power would be going to the bigger xformer and the JJ 6V6 tubes - 20 watts. http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=1098

The thing is............ who is going to do all of these mods and at what cost? The smaller cabinet and lower weight is nice about the Blues Jr, but how much do you want to spend?

I've done nothing to my Blues Jr and it's fine.
 

giayank

Just another day in paradise
I called tube amps one trick ponies because that's what they are . There made to have a specific sound . When you hear one you know what it is . That's why people buy them . You know what your getting . If you buy a blues Jr you expect it to act a certain way . It's not meant as a negative towards them. Modeling amps are trying to capture the sound these amps have. I'm a purest at heart.I would own the vintage tube amps if I could afford them and be able to use them .the pros use them because they can open them up to full volume and hit their sweet spot. I can never play at those levels so I make do with SS modelers . There are many levels of guitar playing and the gear needed to reach each one . Understanding what they are and where your talent fits in enables you to decide what gear to buy .the closest I get to playing out is the VJR.I play at home to backing tracks mostly at volumes that are pretty subdued .Every amp I have tube and SS is louder than I need .My point as it pertains to buying a new amp is if I knew now what I didn't know then I might not even own an amp . I may have a SS moderler and an ass kicking PA. Just need to know what your gonna do with it before you buy it . Take a look at all the used gear out there and you can see how often people aren't happy with what they buy . I'm just offering some thoughts pointed more towards the newbie so they might get a better idea of what they may want to buy .
 

cowboy

Blues, Booze & BBQ
I've owned way too many amps over the years, both solid state and tube...still have some of both and my amp count varies between 7-8 all the time...right now its 2 SS and 5 tube...ALL of them will do something well, either as a bedroom amp, jam amp or gigging amp...

cheap but very usable suggestion for a tube amp: MONOPRICE 15 WATT 1-12...has both a 1W and a 15W imput...great way to get into a tube amp for less money...right now they have a site wide 15% off sale..

check out this amp out...I also did a review of this in the media section of this forum...later.

cowboy
 

Chuck

Moderator (One of the Men in Black!)
Staff member
If you are anything like me and really get into what your doing, you will eventually end up with a little bit of everything!

That being said, it's not so much about which one to buy as it is about which one you want to start with! ;)
 

jackderby52

Prehistoric blues knob (not newbie)
Thanks. You have all given me plenty to chew on. I should say that I'm pretty set on a Fender amp with this purchase. I just like them. The Princeton is at the upper end of my budget. Right now my local music store let me take home a Blues Jr iii and the Princeton 68 Custom Reverb. So I am testing them out. I have a tube screamer pedal that I'm running through them and that drives them both pretty good and I can keep the volume at a decent bedroom level. They both sound good and actually the Blues Junior is just as loud as the Princeton. However....the tone of the Blues Jr. does not seem to have the low end and the openness that I'm getting from the Princeton, but with no master volume on the Princeton there is no way to get tube break up without using the overdrive pedal at low practice volumes. The Low E on the BJr. sounds a little flubby. I'm wondering if all these mods people do to the blues junior is to address the things I'm hearing.

Still both amps sound light years better than what I've been using the last 5 years! Decisions, decisions....

I was going to point out yesterday that it sounded like you already had your answer, the Princeton.. In my view, those are awesome amps... Happy hunting... So many choices, so little money!! :)
 

ToneSeeker

indecisive player ... I suppose..
Thanks. You have all given me plenty to chew on. I should say that I'm pretty set on a Fender amp with this purchase. I just like them. The Princeton is at the upper end of my budget. Right now my local music store let me take home a Blues Jr iii and the Princeton 68 Custom Reverb. So I am testing them out. I have a tube screamer pedal that I'm running through them and that drives them both pretty good and I can keep the volume at a decent bedroom level. They both sound good and actually the Blues Junior is just as loud as the Princeton. However....the tone of the Blues Jr. does not seem to have the low end and the openness that I'm getting from the Princeton, but with no master volume on the Princeton there is no way to get tube break up without using the overdrive pedal at low practice volumes. The Low E on the BJr. sounds a little flubby. I'm wondering if all these mods people do to the blues junior is to address the things I'm hearing.

Still both amps sound light years better than what I've been using the last 5 years! Decisions, decisions....

Here is my .02 cents on the playing at bedroom levels... I just went through this picking up my new replacement amp...

Don't base your amplifier purchase decision on the ability to play at low levels, or to be able to practice at night and not disturb anyone. Your going to regret your decision later on and quite quickly. If you want something to practice without disturbing anyone get something else to perform that purpose with, you will be happier in the long run.

You can pick up an iRig2 for very cheap and that should suffice for your totally quiet practice sessions... or maybe even pick up a Line 6 Pod HD500x which will do everything you ask for and way more in the long run..

Get that amp that your going to be able to jam out with or get that sound your looking for without regard to having the requirement of playing quietly.. You will be glad you did.
 

snarf

making guitars wish they were still trees
The Superchamp is cool but it has so many voicings that it's not good for my guitar ADD and probably not an amp to ever gig with.

Admittedly, this is me just being argumentative because I tend to be partial to the Superchamp. Why couldn't you gig with it? Like both the Princeton and the BJr, it's a 15 watt amp. Depending on which Princeton you get, it might only be a 12 watt amp. Like the Princeton, it's got a 10" speaker. The biggest difference for those that care is that it has fewer tubes to have to worry about. That and it's $150 cheaper than the BJr and $500 cheaper than the cheaper Princeton.

It's actually a great little amp. Although it was loaned to a buddy at the time, mine has been gigged several times. Heck, my Vox AC4 (4 watt amp) has even been gigged...drop a mic in front of it and run it to the PA and you can gig whatever you want.

On the plus side, it has all the different models. If you're like me, you'll spend a week or so totally distracted playing with them, and then settle into the one or two that you like best. It'll also give you the opportunity to spend some time and hear and play the different models and see if you really like the Fender, Vox, or Marshall sound better without breaking the bank...the models are pretty good. The effects on it are ok, but, honestly, I don't use them. Oh - and the clean channel is modeled after a Fender Blackface amp. Sounds really nice with all that Fender-clean-goodness. And that channel will give you clean for days before it starts to drive.

So don't completely discount the Superchamp because it's the entry-level amp of the three. It's actually a great little amp for the money!

Like some of the others have mentioned, I've got a little of all of it. Tube/SS/Modeler. I usually find myself drawn to the tube amps, but, depending on what day of the week it is depends on what the answer to my favorite is. If I were buying something today, I'd probably end up with one of those Egnator Tweaker amps. They've always intrigued me. But, ask me tomorrow, and it might be something else.

Happy hunting, and enjoy the heck out of whichever one you end up choosing!! \m/
 

misterbiscuit

Blues Newbie
I hear exactly what you're saying about getting the most out of a tube amp at lower volumes.

The Mesa Boogie Lone Star Special can operate at 5 watts, 15 watts or 30 watts. That way you can really push it at 5 watts while practicing at home, then take it to a garage jam at 15 watts and gig at 30 watts.

It's pricey, though.
 

CaptainMoto

Blues Voyager
OK ChrisG,
Sounds like you like tubes and you like Fender.
I'd say if you're gonna pop for a Princeton, don't forget to check out a Deluxe Reverb.
For a few more bucks you'll get much more for your money.
It's a better cabinet, 12" speaker, 22 watts and two channels.
A Deluxe Reverb is a classic amp that that classic sound you said you wanted.
I think you might grow out of the Princeton some day but never the Deluxe.
It's probably all you'll ever need.
For low volume playing, there won't be much if any difference in volume between the two.
Get the Princeton or the Deluxe and if it's too loud, deal with that later...........attenuator, Isolation box or some DIY solution.
 
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mountain man

Still got the Blues!
I hear exactly what you're saying about getting the most out of a tube amp at lower volumes.

The Mesa Boogie Lone Star Special can operate at 5 watts, 15 watts or 30 watts. That way you can really push it at 5 watts while practicing at home, then take it to a garage jam at 15 watts and gig at 30 watts.

It's pricey, though.
That is a good combination of power availability. Some gigs the 15 watts will be fine. I was speaking to a guy playing at Lucile's last month (before they stopped Saturday night live Blues) and he was saying his 5 watt all tube Marshall was too loud for the gig as they pipe everything through the PA as well. He was playing through a hybrid at the time. So I really like the 5,15,30 watt capability. :Beer:
 

misterbiscuit

Blues Newbie
here's the pitch to the wife: "If I bought three amps at 5, 15 and 30 watts, it'd cost me a lot more than the Lonestar Special."

hth ...=/
 

ChrisG

Blues Newbie
Admittedly, this is me just being argumentative because I tend to be partial to the Superchamp. Why couldn't you gig with it? Like both the Princeton and the BJr, it's a 15 watt amp. Depending on which Princeton you get, it might only be a 12 watt amp. Like the Princeton, it's got a 10" speaker. The biggest difference for those that care is that it has fewer tubes to have to worry about. That and it's $150 cheaper than the BJr and $500 cheaper than the cheaper Princeton.

It's actually a great little amp. Although it was loaned to a buddy at the time, mine has been gigged several times. Heck, my Vox AC4 (4 watt amp) has even been gigged...drop a mic in front of it and run it to the PA and you can gig whatever you want.

On the plus side, it has all the different models. If you're like me, you'll spend a week or so totally distracted playing with them, and then settle into the one or two that you like best. It'll also give you the opportunity to spend some time and hear and play the different models and see if you really like the Fender, Vox, or Marshall sound better without breaking the bank...the models are pretty good. The effects on it are ok, but, honestly, I don't use them. Oh - and the clean channel is modeled after a Fender Blackface amp. Sounds really nice with all that Fender-clean-goodness. And that channel will give you clean for days before it starts to drive.

So don't completely discount the Superchamp because it's the entry-level amp of the three. It's actually a great little amp for the money!

Like some of the others have mentioned, I've got a little of all of it. Tube/SS/Modeler. I usually find myself drawn to the tube amps, but, depending on what day of the week it is depends on what the answer to my favorite is. If I were buying something today, I'd probably end up with one of those Egnator Tweaker amps. They've always intrigued me. But, ask me tomorrow, and it might be something else.

Happy hunting, and enjoy the heck out of whichever one you end up choosing!! \m/

I like the Superchamp.
 

ChrisG

Blues Newbie
So. Just when I was close to making a decision I went and got a Mustang iii amp just to compare and contrast. Wow! This is a cool amp and its a lot less expensive than the tube amps I was considering. I dialed up a 65 deluxe reverb added an overdrive stomp and a little reverb and bam....nice sound. I compare it to the tones coming out of the blues Jr and the Princeton and it's really close. The tube amps are a bit more "organic" I think for lack of a better word, but the Mustang offers a lot of versatility. At 100 watts its definitely gig worthy. I know it's not a "tube amp but man it's cool! It's responsive to my guitar controls almost exactly like the tube amps and I can keep tone dialed in at low volumes. I have all weekend to decide!
 

CaptainMoto

Blues Voyager
So. Just when I was close to making a decision I went and got a Mustang iii amp just to compare and contrast. Wow! This is a cool amp and its a lot less expensive than the tube amps I was considering. I dialed up a 65 deluxe reverb added an overdrive stomp and a little reverb and bam....nice sound. I compare it to the tones coming out of the blues Jr and the Princeton and it's really close. The tube amps are a bit more "organic" I think for lack of a better word, but the Mustang offers a lot of versatility. At 100 watts its definitely gig worthy. I know it's not a "tube amp but man it's cool! It's responsive to my guitar controls almost exactly like the tube amps and I can keep tone dialed in at low volumes. I have all weekend to decide!
Ha Ha!
I think you're sold.
SS is a much more practical and versatile way to go, if you can get over the emotional issue of craving a tube amp.
 
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Rancid Rumpboogie

Blues Mangler
Kudus to you Chris for at least giving a Mustang III a fair shot! Lots of "tube snobs" won't even try one. I know it's hard not to let them infect you with their "disease". I own three great tube amps along with my Mustang III ... one 50W and two 100W but one of the 100Wers is switchable to 50W and the other has its own built in attenuator. I will admit that the tube amps have slightly more "something" ... but it is slight. On the other hand, the Mustang is just many times more versatile and truly USEFUL than any of them. I cannot record direct out through a USB with any of them. I cannot get the same exact tone at whisper quiet bedroom levels as at loud levels with any of them. I cannot alter any of them to be anything other than what they are ... The Carvins are Carvins and the Lee Jackson is a Lee Jackson, all one-trick ponies in that regard, none of them can emulate a Fender Twin or a Fender Deluxe or a Fender Bassman at the click of one button.

I think you have more to compare than you can get done in one week end. I think you need to spend the time finding the absolute most knock-your socks off tone for each of those tube amps. Then try to match each using the Mustang. And there is a lot to work with there, not only the mid/bass/treble controls, but also the sag and bias and speaker emulation choices ... things you can't even adjust on a tube amp. And, if you find a tube amp tone that you just can't live without, and that the Mustang can't match very closely, and are willing to give up all the versatility of the Mustang just to have that one tone, buy the tube amp.
 
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mountain man

Still got the Blues!
You will still need a tube amp. I spose you can hold on until you have enough $$ to buy a really good one like the Nace............ Then you will wonder why you ever bought a SS amp...............
 

Rancid Rumpboogie

Blues Mangler
If Chris does as I suggest, he's lots more likely to end up wondering why anybody needs a tube amp. :)
I know I sure don't. If any of my tube amps up and dies, it won't even be replaced. They will probably last forever though, because they never even get turned on any more.
 
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